[NL50] AKs many outs turn/river play?

The Hand:
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Just like 7 hands on him, he raised 3 of them to standard size, no reads.

I am not comfortable with this line tbh against unknown, but on turn I basically planned to bet and bet most rivers and went with it despite not liking it inside (I am naturally passive on the river, and play it weak way too much, like 99% SSNL regs)

1) Can we take any alternative lines on the turn?
2) Was my plan to bet and bet most rivers a correct one?
3) How do you like this river in particular and should it be in 'most rivers' when 89 got there?
4) Is Check Call line ever feasible on the river?
5) How does it all differ if villain was a very good TAG REG? and we played him a lot/had to balance?

this is prob. not good.
and by prob. not good, i mean dont do this unless u have good reads that they will fold.

On December 29 2010 19:07 Zalfor wrote: this is prob. not good. and by prob. not good, i mean dont do this unless u have good reads that they will fold.

Can I ask you to respond to the questions please? I would really appreciate it

1) I like it c/shoving turn is a possibility vs aggro fish with history
2) I don't like it 7x+ is not folding on river unless you improve, in which case you're valuebetting anyway so =
3) this is one of the worst rivers for you don't bet it
4) no you lose to half of the draws that missed and every hand he's valuebetting
5) I still hate it vs a good tag reg unless you have history of him floating flop and turn to bet river vs you. It's possible he could be smart enough to call both streets and bet or shove river repping a boat, but I think it's more likely he actually has a boat when he calls turn, let alone all the other shit that isn't folding non heart rivers

I've been wrong before, this is just what I think, if someone better says something else, go with them.

1) Betting the turn is the right play
2) With no reads, I don't firing the third usually. What are you folding out that is beating you? Only certain players play that way with middle/low pocket pairs or combo draws with a ten that got there, and those are the only hands you bluff out (potentially)
3) I don't understand the question, but obviously the ten sucks cuz the straight got there and that's a decent, probably even large, part of his range
4) C/C the river is imo better than betting but I like C/F a lot better with no reads. I'd need a strong read to C/C.
5) TAG reg doesn't change my mind much

Venrae's advice is probably better BTW, I'm bad but I still wanted to post my thought process.

1. don't bet turn, NO pp is folding, and if he has a flush draw too, i imagine he will check behind where u can stack him on the river. also since the board paired, tons of pp will check behind AS WELL. SO U GET FREE OUTS.
2. no. don't be the river and don't bet the turn. when you bet the turn it is even more likely that he has a pp. don't give ppl credit for folding.
3. such a random combination it doesn't matter that much in the big scheme of things.
4. ....
5. IF YOU ARE PLAYING NL1000 AND FEEL LIKE YOU NEED TO BALANCE THEN I GUESS U CAN TRIPPLE BARREL HERE LOLOLOLOLOL. but in all seroiusness, u can prob make this play at nl200. but i think specific reads are very important.

this has nothing to do with what stakes you're playing.

you have to bet the turn. you bet flop bet turn and c/f river. the only reason I didn't say anything about the other questions is because this line is completely standard. betting the river is usually not good. sometimes against passive opponents if the river goes check chec you have th ebest hand.

bet flop, bet turn and then make a decision on the river.

Yeah I don't understand any of what MNJ Is saying here I thought I'm nitty, maybe he missread the hand or sth?

And is asking how what plan for river we have when we bet the turn too much Zalfor? Really? We are just talking non AK +flush rivers there is not too many of 'em ;o DO you at least bet Q J rivers?

Since he is an unknown :
1.No
2.No
3 .No.I might bet if the river was a Q or a J and pray he has a combo draw at best and fold
4.He is an unknown
5.I would def bet a Q or J river cause he should know that i am a nit

I'll Make it this way:
What is out plan for turn and river?

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I dunno why but I must have seen this somewhere that someone did plan to bet and bet a lot of rivers on a board like this am I going crazy?

you dont need to bet even 50% of rivers to maek a turn bet profitable.

a turn bet is profitable because your opponent folds, or you can value them on the river, or you can bluff them on the river.

don't play your hands only for value or a bluff. semi bluffing is clearly the only choice here. the intention is you can barrel some rivers and give up on some rivers. the T is one of the worst rivers for you.

On January 01 2011 01:58 Zalfor wrote: you dont need to bet even 50% of rivers to maek a turn bet profitable. a turn bet is profitable because your opponent folds, or you can value them on the river, or you can bluff them on the river. don't play your hands only for value or a bluff. semi bluffing is clearly the only choice here. the intention is you can barrel some rivers and give up on some rivers. the T is one of the worst rivers for you.

Uhhhh what rivers are we bluffing? Every river I can think of that would be a good bluff card we are going to be value betting.

On January 01 2011 01:58 Zalfor wrote: you dont need to bet even 50% of rivers to maek a turn bet profitable. a turn bet is profitable because your opponent folds, or you can value them on the river, or you can bluff them on the river. don't play your hands only for value or a bluff. semi bluffing is clearly the only choice here. the intention is you can barrel some rivers and give up on some rivers. the T is one of the worst rivers for you.

I'm not sure to what you are answering here

So do you bet Q+J rivers and give up on other non-value ones?What about spade rivers? Spill it man don't be a politician ;o

check hope hes on a missed draw and is passive for sure

i wouldnt bet the turn that big probably a bit less
and i would def mostly c/f the river coz i dont see anything he would call turn with and wouldnt call this river except like another fd or some pair + str8 draw possibly with a fd coming on turn but that wouldnt be often enough i guess

just give up river with no info

you think varying your play based on stakes (aka skill level) is irrelevant?

hmm, if he called 2 streets, what do you think he is folding on THAT river?

--- Nuked ---

ofc. I bet turn and then on rivers which I miss, I will most likely c/f. I don't expect someone to fold to my first 3 barrel when all draws miss. I don't have a uniform answer on most turns and rivers because its mainly opponent specific + I use RNG to decide.

[edit] however, specifically on the T river, I will not bet. I prefer to c/f. checking doesn't mean we're going to lose either.