[NL25] Turn 3b pot

Submitted by : LemOn[5thF]

PokerStars Game #53121158804: Holdem No Limit ($0.10/$0.25 USD) - 2010/11/22 23:38:05 WET [2010/11/22 18:38:05 ET]
Table Walraven V 6-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 2: Partyboy1 ($28.33 in chips)
Seat 4: s3lasi3 ($19.65 in chips)
Seat 5: lastbell ($25 in chips)
Seat 6: DoC.LemOn ($26.46 in chips)
DoC.LemOn: posts small blind $0.10
Partyboy1: posts big blind $0.25

Holecards
Dealt to DoC.LemOn
s3lasi3: folds
lastbell: raises $0.25 to $0.50
DoC.LemOn: raises $1.75 to $2.25
Partyboy1: folds
Aguero21 was removed from the table for failing to post
lastbell: calls $1.75

Flop (Pot : $4.75)

   
DoC.LemOn: bets $3
lastbell: calls $3

Turn (Pot : $10.75)

   
DoC.LemOn:

Just with the very limited info you can try to make some pretty vague assumptions:

- If he steals a lot he is probably not a complete retard
- If he is a retard he will likely be an aggro tard (PF and often means post flop too)
- He's unlikely to have the nuts right now
- 77/TT and maybe JJ are in his range, QQ unlikely, KK/AA almost never
- QJ/KJ/KQ/AQ/JT/AJ/ATs/88/99 quite possible
- QTs, 89s, T9s maybe A9s unlikely

Vs 100% of that entire range you are doing ok 52% (obv not quite accurate as some combos less likely).

If you bet say $7 on the turn he calls river is a blank he is rarely betting anything you beat if you check river and he is never floating the turn (A9s??? Unlikely he calls PF but who knows). If you check turn he bets everything that beats you and semi-bluffs the draws that don't (A9s?), checks behind all made hands that have showdown value. He is rarely raising turn as a bluff unless he really is bad aggressive type and you just don't know that yet.

Basically it is very hard for him to get to the river without showdown value and as you say people rarely turn made hands in to bluffs at 25nl (almost never in my experience) you can bet fold turn and c/f river. c/c turn seems bad (unless he bets small) & leaves you in a weird river spot and c/f seems weak.

I guess you could plan to c/f turn to a decent sized bet and value bet river if he checks behind. The trouble is I think he bets all reasonable made hands on the turn for value some of which you beat - AJ/KJ for example so you may end up folding the best hand whereas he calls turn with these and checks behind river.

Interested to hear your thoughts here as you obviously have some!

I'd b/f ~$7. If he raises it's a super easy fold and the river is extremely easy to play. If you have history of him floating flop/turn to bet river c/c, if not just c/f. AJ type hands should be checking the river and you lose to all of his valuebetting range.

I just stoved you vs a nightmare range and b/c ~8 might be better.

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

1,144 games 0.016 secs 71,500 games/sec

Board: 7h Tc Qh Jd
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 25.350% 25.35% 00.00% 290 0.00 { KsQc }
Hand 1: 74.650% 74.65% 00.00% 854 0.00 { QQ-TT, QJs, JTs, 98s, QJo, JTo }


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Yeah I like 8.25/call shove. You have to c/f river unimproved though.

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wtf
bet bet shove
bet call turn
i dont know how its being played at nl25 but wtf bunch of nits
we have TP good kicker + open ended + 1 over in a 3 bet pot 4 handed
i also dont mind a check shove on turn

wow
MSNL+guys here have completely different mentality in 3 bet pots than me, and this is not the first time I feel like a major level1 pussy after one of your guys' replies about my 3b play and thinking...

It would most likely take too much time for you to go deep into aggression in 3bet pots, would you or somebody else know what what are the best vids/articles/books that deal with 3b pot play with initiative and non-nut hands?

just watch tom dwan play :D

i think you guys are thinking ''hes not calling with worse''
this is true but you guys are thinking that way too much
so you play weak and prolly fold best hand often and/or miss value from alotof hands
alot of players here callwith KJ KT 99 88
turn is H vilain is def not folding AThh or some hands like that
we have a great hands we should be firing again to win the pot right now and since we have a decent hand we are not folding to a shove
if you 3 betted the KQ in the first place then it mean you think hes gona call light preflop and postflop...

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one thing i noticed (right now i'm grinding 1-2 cent) having lots of fun doing it and it seems there is less luck involved if you deny them that free card. The more free cards they see the more luck there is in the long run. Also if you are consistent in c betting flops and turns people WILL call you down with a lot worse more often than not. You may think oh they won't do that but they pay attention to and see that you don't stop firing and a lot of times they call you down with middle pair no kicker and that's how u get extra value from hands you probably shouldn't.

On November 24 2010 06:40 LemOn[5thF] wrote: wow MSNL+guys here have completely different mentality in 3 bet pots than me, and this is not the first time I feel like a major level1 pussy after one of your guys' replies about my 3b play and thinking...

+1

so you guys bet the turn with? set and ak?
wow you guy must be hard to play
note on guy '' he suck 3 bet shit and check turn if he doenst have nut and fold if i bet becuase he suck hardcore so i must bet sec pair in his face when he does that easy money''
if you 3 bet him pre with that you MUST have a reason
and that reason should brings you to bet call turn ou check shove or w/e
its 4 handed and the guy raised every hand o n button and cutoff
COMON
+we are oop wich make vilain range wayyyy bigger(preflop and on turn)
i see alot of regs here calling twice with 88 99 KJ AJ AThh etc etc
people are bad
people dont all play like you
if you want to play KQo oop 3 bet pot
play it for real
dont play it like a faggot its wasting money

hm i feel like you ve just completely destroyed my game in 3bet pots Heroes ... for which thanks (and i mean it )

On November 25 2010 09:17 HeRoS)eNGagE wrote: so you guys bet the turn with? set and ak? wow you guy must be hard to play note on guy '' he suck 3 bet shit and check turn if he doenst have nut and fold if i bet becuase he suck hardcore so i must bet sec pair in his face when he does that easy money'' if you 3 bet him pre with that you MUST have a reason and that reason should brings you to bet call turn ou check shove or w/e its 4 handed and the guy raised every hand o n button and cutoff COMON +we are oop wich make vilain range wayyyy bigger(preflop and on turn) i see alot of regs here calling twice with 88 99 KJ AJ AThh etc etc people are bad people dont all play like you if you want to play KQo oop 3 bet pot play it for real dont play it like a faggot its wasting money

I would bet turn as a default here and if he shoves (at 25nl unless proven aggro-tard) we are always looking at 2p+ so I guess it's then just a math question re. calling - correct?

If he flats our say $7 turn bet - that's when things get interesting in my mind as assuming a blank river what does a bet get called by that we beat and what does he bet river with if we check that we beat - he can't really get there with anything that has no showdown value and he won't turn AT/KJ etc etc in to bluffs (at 25nl). This is the point where I struggle as you clearly see this as an easy shove and you know way better than me obv so can you explain please?

im an agressiv player so it change alot of you guys are sick nit
im getting called and shoved over with TERRIBLES hands
nl400 to nl1k
also
sometimes making the -ev play might be the best play in the long run
river is prolly a check, player dependent

also im pretty sure u guys have a red line going allll the way down

On November 25 2010 11:04 HeRoS)eNGagE wrote: also im pretty u guys have a red line going allll the way down

That seems to be what everyone want these days. I can't understand a reasoning for it, but people hate winning money outside of showdown. for me, blue line is nice but green line is the only thing that matters.

--- Nuked ---

ok
nevermind guys
just dont 3 bet KQ in that spot if you are gay and hope to hit a Q22 flop

agree with engage here. Pretty good board after you 3bet. Bomb it