Folding KK preflop?

today i raised the stakes i usually play and lost 2 BIs to preflop all ins me KK villain AA.... is there nothing i can do just pray for op to have AK QQ?


PokerStars Game #41466755616: Hold'em No Limit ($0.05/$0.10 USD) - 2010/03/21 2:25:56 WET [2010/03/20 22:25:56 ET]
Table 'Meeus V' 6-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: bertjevenray ($1.65 in chips)
Seat 2: xicotaSLB ($11.50 in chips)
Seat 3: TeSpartan ($18.40 in chips)
Seat 5: philwine1 ($7.75 in chips)
Seat 6: IamBan ($11.55 in chips)
IamBan: posts small blind $0.05
bertjevenray: posts big blind $0.10
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to xicotaSLB [Ks Kd]
xicotaSLB: raises $0.30 to $0.40
TeSpartan: raises $0.90 to $1.30
philwine1: folds
IamBan: folds
bertjevenray: folds
xicotaSLB: raises $1.30 to $2.60
TeSpartan: raises $1.70 to $4.30
xicotaSLB: raises $7.20 to $11.50 and is all-in
TeSpartan: calls $7.20
*** FLOP *** [3d 6h Js]
*** TURN *** [3d 6h Js]
*** RIVER *** [3d 6h Js Td]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
xicotaSLB: shows [Ks Kd] (a pair of Kings)
TeSpartan: shows [Ah Ad] (a pair of Aces)
TeSpartan collected $22 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $23.15 | Rake $1.15
Board [3d 6h Js Td 8d]
Seat 1: bertjevenray (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 2: xicotaSLB showed [Ks Kd] and lost with a pair of Kings
Seat 3: TeSpartan showed [Ah Ad] and won ($22) with a pair of Aces
Seat 5: philwine1 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: IamBan (small blind) folded before Flop

cooler

never

Smile and take it, but never fold kings preflop. If you truly have a sick read and are certain he has aces, if youre both deep, I say at least call to see if you can spike a set. However, I would be more prone to just getting it in before the flop no matter what

never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever fold kings preflop in microstakes nl

This is rather funny, because I see people fold KK face up and get greeted with AA like every week during live play. I guess it's just because so much aggression is so fundamentally rare at a live game that someone simply must have aces. About 2 months ago someone raises 20BB's utg, and I look down at KK OTB. It's folded to me and I'm already like "uhhh, what's my move here?" So I re-raise to 50BB's and he just insta-ships right there. Obviously I call and ding ding ding, he has aces. For 100BB's, the biggest problem with folding KK is

1) You're way wrong about their range and they have QQ or worse
2) You end up pot committing yourself EQ wise after investing so much before you start to think you're behind.

Those two elements are enough reason to justify going allin with KK every single time.

Never fold KK for 100bb. Never fold KK at nl10 for below 3BI unless it is vs a super nit with extensive history, even then if you have less than 2 BI don't ever fold

If its for bigger stacks like 3BI+ and they are doing the typical fish min raise to your raises, I at least see a flop to see if I can bust them with a set, since they will NEVER fold aces

Preflop minraising doesnt mean shit. In fact, it's usually a very bad hand. It's the postflop minraising you have to worry about.

i heard one guy folded kk pf one day. prolly just a myth

On March 21 2010 03:41 ciachooooo wrote: i heard one guy folded kk pf one day. prolly just a myth

Source or didn't happen.

There are only 6 possible combinations of AA and everything else you dominate. If you let yourself get folded with KK to a 5-bet shove then you're going to be folding to stuff like suited AK/AQ, KK, QQ, KQ, and sometimes JJ/TT/AJ. There is never a reason to fold kings preflop.

Despite what people may say, it is possible to fold KK preflop. But that usually happens with some stats no one will blame you if you get it in because there's only one hand that got you beat. Although, there is one thing I want to mention is that because people are so damn passive at these limits, getting crazy action preflop could mean very narrow range of hands. In fact, I think I've folded more kings in microstakes than small stakes because lot of players aren't even happy to get it in with AK. If you are making the decision of committing 200bb, it is possible for you to fold.

By the way, I really despise your minraise. To me, it looks like you were getting really excited here, wanting to get the money in. That minraise looks like it's going for value. So you clearly had the intention of getting the money in which is fine. Now that you lost the pot, you feel sorry about the hand? My advice is that if you are thinking of getting it in, 4bet better and don't feel stupid for losing against AA. KKvAA will happen. It's rough, we know. What can you do? Truth is, very little to nothing. Move on to the next hand or take a break if you feel tilted.

The passivity factor isnt what you really worry about, it's overall hand range. I'm much more worried about a player running 4% vpip than a guy running 40% when the money goes in preflop. Passive fish will spaz out, do stupid shit, decide they are going to bluff you for the 1st time ever because "they have a read" on you, etc etc etc. A tight player is never doing any of these.

Are you fucking serious ?
his 4 bet is totally fine.
(dont 4 bet more than 30% of your stack , never , you're commited )

for the question itself , lol no

5 handed for about 100bb. I don't fold this even against 0/0/5000000000 hands =[.

On March 21 2010 21:12 Fox wrote: 5 handed for about 100bb. I don't fold this even against 0/0/5000000000 hands =[.

id fold that

Once in a while you are going to get your money in with kings vs aces. It happens when you're both deep stacked and you are a 9 to 1 dog. The odds of you getting stacked off against anything that has you dominated is ridiculous and definitely worse than 9 to 1. If you ever let yourself fold kings you are -ev, plain and simple.

On March 22 2010 08:20 offsuit wrote: Once in a while you are going to get your money in with kings vs aces. It happens when you're both deep stacked and you are a 9 to 1 dog. The odds of you getting stacked off against anything that has you dominated is ridiculous and definitely worse than 9 to 1. If you ever let yourself fold kings you are -ev, plain and simple.

KK has 18% equity vs AA, not 10%

Never fold KK preflop, even 250bb deep, at nl 10.