river weird spot

villain is unknown but he is not playing with a fullstack so he is probably not a reg
sometimes I fire the turn in these spots, depends on how strong I think villain is, cause if I get shoved I gonna hate myself
when he check back the turn I put him mostly on weak pairs that cant face much heat and just wanna play a small pot
on the river I go for a value bet and... meh
looks like a slowplayed set or overpair, maybe a backdoor flush?
thoughts? something I couldve done better?

Submitted by : tutz

PokerStars Game #41157585109: Holdem No Limit ($0.25/$0.50 USD) - 2010/03/14 16:33:08 BRT [2010/03/14 15:33:08 ET]
Table Nausikaa II 6-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: kukiloko ($10.50 in chips)
Seat 2: tutz_aml ($50 in chips)
Seat 3: Takep1984 ($68.10 in chips)
Seat 4: Lisbeth22 ($21.15 in chips)
Seat 5: rossi1810 ($42.85 in chips)
Seat 6: nollet ($50 in chips)
tutz_aml: posts small blind $0.25
Takep1984: posts big blind $0.50

Holecards
Dealt to tutz_aml
Lisbeth22: folds
rossi1810: raises $1 to $1.50
nollet: folds
kukiloko: folds
tutz_aml: calls $1.25
Takep1984: folds

Flop (Pot : $3.50)

   
tutz_aml: checks
rossi1810: bets $1.50
tutz_aml: raises $4 to $5.50
rossi1810: calls $4

Turn (Pot : $14.50)

   
tutz_aml: checks
rossi1810: checks

River (Pot : $14.50)

   
tutz_aml: bets $10
rossi1810: raises $25.85 to $35.85 and is all-in
tutz_aml: folds
Uncalled bet ($25.85) returned to rossi1810
rossi1810 collected $32.85 from pot

Summary
Total pot $34.50 | Rake $1.65
Board  
Seat 1: kukiloko (button) folded before Flop (didnt bet)
Seat 2: tutz_aml (small blind) folded on the River
Seat 3: Takep1984 (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 4: Lisbeth22 folded before Flop (didnt bet)
Seat 5: rossi1810 collected ($32.85)
Seat 6: nollet folded before Flop (didnt bet)

bet turn shove river

Thats why you raise flop so small, so you can fire 2 streets and still have 2/3 pot left on the river right?

I'd definitely raise flop bigger if I plan on checking rag turn.
FE is the shizzle with your hand and the stack size on river is just eww

I think I should delete this before tom see it

He would have showed you a flush, no shame in folding here.

There's no way this guy was making a sick bluff and even if he was you can't call it.

bet turn
reraise flop biggeeer
maximize ur fold equitty AHHHHH
#^#*#^%YWSTRAZRUJXS
hi

as played check/call is a much better line on the river imo

On March 14 2010 18:49 EzPzLmnSqz wrote: as played check/call is a much better line on the river imo

why? thin value makes alot of sense here...
and he make it 5.5 on the flop? how big do you guys think he should have raised there?

If you checked the turn with control, checking the river is not a bad idea especially when you have some showdown value.
I don't know why you checked on the turn though. You should have considered betting pretty hard here so that if you get shoved on, you have odds to call it.

What were you going to do if the river bricked, check again? I don't think you planned this hand very well from the start.

On March 15 2010 04:27 Arirang wrote: If you checked the turn with control, checking the river is not a bad idea especially when you have some showdown value. I don't know why you checked on the turn though. You should have considered betting pretty hard here so that if you get shoved on, you have odds to call it. What were you going to do if the river bricked, check again? I don't think you planned this hand very well from the start.

there's no bet on the turn that would give me odd to call if I got shoved... If I had bet say $14 and he shoved, I would have to call $30 to win $100, knowing that the only cards that will give me the winning hand are the 9 hearts

I planned the hand well in my head I think... if the river bricked I would just give up

I tend to bet this turn a lot more often against regs that I know will suspect of my raise and peel with a lot of garbage hands that cant face much heat, against unknowns depends on how I feel about my fold equity at the moment, timing tell and stuff

Hmm..the 9 of heart is one of the hearts that you would hope not to see if you do shove and you get called.
I think I would still bet this turn a lot of the time because you would bet it with two pair or better.
As well as, the villain has shown weakness on flop, so.. it's better to continue the story especially when you have cards to look forward to on the river.

Then again, villain is fishy..so balancing is not altogether needed I suppose.

Lol what the hell dude how can you be afraid of something that never happens?
I have seen flop call on drawy board and shove on rag turn like twice in 50k hands at NL25-NL50, and I cant remember anything before that.

Why would you ever think he will be shove raising turn with a high frequency?
Even if he has a set or AA, the more frequent line is call flop minraise turn at this limit for non-regs if he decides to just call your tiny raise on flop.


By betting, you generate fold equity and prepare a perfect stack/pot ratio on the river.

Plus its really shitty trying to extract value on the river when the most obvious draw card falls and you are out of position, without initiative, with 2,7X pot/stack ratio

On March 15 2010 11:27 Arirang wrote: Hmm..the 9 of heart is one of the hearts that you would hope not to see if you do shove and you get called. I think I would still bet this turn a lot of the time because you would bet it with two pair or better. As well as, the villain has shown weakness on flop, so.. it's better to continue the story especially when you have cards to look forward to on the river. Then again, villain is fishy..so balancing is not altogether needed I suppose.

never ever balance at these stakes
and he mean 9 heart outs not 9 of hearts

On March 15 2010 12:58 LemOn[5thF] wrote: Lol what the hell dude how can you be afraid of something that never happens? I have seen flop call on drawy board and shove on rag turn like twice in 50k hands at NL25-NL50, and I cant remember anything before that. Why would you ever think he will be shove raising turn with a high frequency? Even if he has a set or AA, the more frequent line is call flop minraise turn at this limit for non-regs if he decides to just call your tiny raise on flop. By betting, you generate fold equity and prepare a perfect stack/pot ratio on the river. Plus its really shitty trying to extract value on the river when the most obvious draw card falls and you are out of position, without initiative, with 2,7X pot/stack ratio

you are right!
I should have bet the turn
/thread

i call this river all day as played but I'm a station