Quantum JJ vs Brazilian JJ

I don't have that much experience with either of them, but how come none of the MMA fighters use it, it seams that it has more wrestling, kicking and punching in it, like sambo, is it no that effective on the ground ?

On February 08 2010 20:17 Currency wrote: I don't have that much experience with either of them, but how come none of the MMA fighters use it, it seams that it has more wrestling, kicking and punching in it, like sambo, is it no that effective on the ground ?

a lot of it looks like useless retarded shit. its mainly some guy who probably trained some bjj made up quantum bjj so he could market it and try and make some money of it. just like eddy bravos shit. its basically all the same shit with a few cool looky flashy moves to attract the noobs.

Stim already summed it up, these little "spin off" arts pop up all the time by people trying to cash in on the recent popularity of the sport

typical modern martial art
throw as much mma shit as possible and some flashy shit in and go with it

but i mean
for the sake of competency in a fight
it's probably a lot better than many bjj gyms

why doesnt everyone train sambo?

On February 08 2010 22:11 SfydjkLm wrote: why doesnt everyone train sambo?

in theory id think sambo would be the win. but who besides fedro has used sambo effectively? andre was a sambo champ i think and he got absolutely schooled on the ground by roy nelson.

On February 08 2010 22:25 Stim_Abuser wrote: Show nested quote + On February 08 2010 22:11 SfydjkLm wrote: why doesnt everyone train sambo? in theory id think sambo would be the win. but who besides fedro has used sambo effectively? andre was a sambo champ i think and he got absolutely schooled on the ground by roy nelson.

Aleks, Kharitonov, pretty much all russian top fighters have sambo backgrounds.
well it would be a real solid guess to assume that Andre won it on his stand up and takedown defense.
It's sorta like im not really expecting Arona to be submitting people even tho he's such a sicko in BJJ.
but the point i was trying to make was that there are a lot of real good disciplines out there but who knows why people dont use em. U have to ask fighter's trainers. Even different Gracie family tree brunches focus different styles of jiu jitsu from Aoki style BJJ to Penn style BJJ to more of classical japanese BJJ.

On February 08 2010 22:32 SfydjkLm wrote: Show nested quote + On February 08 2010 22:25 Stim_Abuser wrote:   On February 08 2010 22:11 SfydjkLm wrote: why doesnt everyone train sambo? in theory id think sambo would be the win. but who besides fedro has used sambo effectively? andre was a sambo champ i think and he got absolutely schooled on the ground by roy nelson. Aleks, Kharitonov, pretty much all russian top fighters have sambo backgrounds. well it would be a real solid guess to assume that Andre won it on his stand up and takedown defense. It's sorta like im not really expecting Arona to be submitting people even tho he's such a sicko in BJJ. but the point i was trying to make was that there are a lot of real good disciplines out there but who knows why people dont use em. U have to ask fighter's trainers. Even different Gracie family tree brunches focus different styles of jiu jitsu from Aoki style BJJ to Penn style BJJ to more of classical japanese BJJ.

whenever aleks has fought someone with an elite ground game hes gotten schooled. all of his notable wins have come from striking. he got schooled by barnette and werdum on the ground right quick. kharitonov is pretty awesome so ill give you that. though most of his wins are by striking he did hang with nog on the ground. and andre got schooled on the ground and roy was taking him down at will. only reason andre won that fight is because the ref stood them up while nelson had side control. and not to mention nelson was dead gassed and couldnt keep his hands up since he took the fight on a weeks notice.

i think the reason sambo hasnt trasnfered well in ground fighting for a lot of people is because you're only on the ground for a very short time before an automatic stand up. just like judo.

What happened to the days of when the winner of a fight won because he was harder?

On February 08 2010 22:40 Stim_Abuser wrote: Show nested quote + On February 08 2010 22:32 SfydjkLm wrote:   On February 08 2010 22:25 Stim_Abuser wrote:   On February 08 2010 22:11 SfydjkLm wrote: why doesnt everyone train sambo? in theory id think sambo would be the win. but who besides fedro has used sambo effectively? andre was a sambo champ i think and he got absolutely schooled on the ground by roy nelson. Aleks, Kharitonov, pretty much all russian top fighters have sambo backgrounds. well it would be a real solid guess to assume that Andre won it on his stand up and takedown defense. It's sorta like im not really expecting Arona to be submitting people even tho he's such a sicko in BJJ. but the point i was trying to make was that there are a lot of real good disciplines out there but who knows why people dont use em. U have to ask fighter's trainers. Even different Gracie family tree brunches focus different styles of jiu jitsu from Aoki style BJJ to Penn style BJJ to more of classical japanese BJJ. whenever aleks has fought someone with an elite ground game hes gotten schooled. all of his notable wins have come from striking. he got schooled by barnette and werdum on the ground right quick. kharitonov is pretty awesome so ill give you that. though most of his wins are by striking he did hang with nog on the ground. and andre got schooled on the ground and roy was taking him down at will. only reason andre won that fight is because the ref stood them up while nelson had side control. and not to mention nelson was dead gassed and couldnt keep his hands up since he took the fight on a weeks notice.

he didnt do too bad against neither barnett nor werdum and he did look decent against nastula. But we're talking Barnett and Werdum here its hard to not be dominated by those guys. And Andre did avoid takedowns against both Werdum and O'brien with ease, so i dont think its fair either to bring up Nelson, who is himself a top MMA grappler, very underrated. I've posted video before where he tooled Mir in a BJJ competition. Much more relevant would be to bring up his Datsik fight which happened just year after his win(or less?), in which, well, HMM.
I do expect there was a difference between Andre's and Emelianenko's sambo schools. I assume Andre's school was more sports, while it's known that Voronov taught sambo in its pure form. Sorta like american vs japanese judo schools, the US judokas(ala Soku) are garbage for MMA while the japs translate pretty fine.

On February 08 2010 23:03 SfydjkLm wrote: Show nested quote + On February 08 2010 22:40 Stim_Abuser wrote:   On February 08 2010 22:32 SfydjkLm wrote:   On February 08 2010 22:25 Stim_Abuser wrote:   On February 08 2010 22:11 SfydjkLm wrote: why doesnt everyone train sambo? in theory id think sambo would be the win. but who besides fedro has used sambo effectively? andre was a sambo champ i think and he got absolutely schooled on the ground by roy nelson. Aleks, Kharitonov, pretty much all russian top fighters have sambo backgrounds. well it would be a real solid guess to assume that Andre won it on his stand up and takedown defense. It's sorta like im not really expecting Arona to be submitting people even tho he's such a sicko in BJJ. but the point i was trying to make was that there are a lot of real good disciplines out there but who knows why people dont use em. U have to ask fighter's trainers. Even different Gracie family tree brunches focus different styles of jiu jitsu from Aoki style BJJ to Penn style BJJ to more of classical japanese BJJ. whenever aleks has fought someone with an elite ground game hes gotten schooled. all of his notable wins have come from striking. he got schooled by barnette and werdum on the ground right quick. kharitonov is pretty awesome so ill give you that. though most of his wins are by striking he did hang with nog on the ground. and andre got schooled on the ground and roy was taking him down at will. only reason andre won that fight is because the ref stood them up while nelson had side control. and not to mention nelson was dead gassed and couldnt keep his hands up since he took the fight on a weeks notice. he didnt do too bad against neither barnett nor werdum and he did look decent against nastula. But we're talking Barnett and Werdum here its hard to not be dominated by those guys. And Andre did avoid takedowns against both Werdum and O'brien with ease, so i dont think its fair either to bring up Nelson, who is himself a top MMA grappler, very underrated. I've posted video before where he tooled Mir in a BJJ competition. Much more relevant would be to bring up his Datsik fight which happened just year after his win(or less?), in which, well, HMM. I do expect there was a difference between Andre's and Emelianenko's sambo schools. I assume Andre's school was more sports, while it's known that Voronov taught sambo in its pure form. Sorta like american vs japanese judo schools, the US judokas(ala Soku) are garbage for MMA while the japs translate pretty fine.

aleks did well on the ground? both barnette and werdum murdered him with ease once it got there. he did well standing up yea... and for the most part andreis TDD is wrestling styled not sambo. he does a basic sprawl. im well aware of nelsons ground skills but hes no takedown monster. and i know its no shame losing to these guys on the ground but they got dominated. and its the only example i have because for the most part most of their fights are standing. im not saying sambo isnt awesome. but it seems clear that once the fights on the ground sambo fighters for the most part struggle a lot vs bjj guys.

~shrug~ i dont think the sample is large enough to pass judgement just yet. maybe when M1 selection gets a few more russian guys on world scene then well be able to be more accurate in our assessment. Ye BJJ has given the world of MMA more top notch grapplers but look at BJJ saturation in MMA!
I mean there are shitty BJJ guys in MMA and there are phenomenal BJJ guys. But look at sambo guys, i mean i cant think of a single sambo practitioner who isnt a top notch fighter.

On February 08 2010 22:25 Stim_Abuser wrote: Show nested quote + On February 08 2010 22:11 SfydjkLm wrote: why doesnt everyone train sambo? in theory id think sambo would be the win. but who besides fedro has used sambo effectively? andre was a sambo champ i think and he got absolutely schooled on the ground by roy nelson.

Fedor is also black belt and Master of Sports in Judo.

On February 09 2010 00:55 Currency wrote: Show nested quote + On February 08 2010 22:25 Stim_Abuser wrote:   On February 08 2010 22:11 SfydjkLm wrote: why doesnt everyone train sambo? in theory id think sambo would be the win. but who besides fedro has used sambo effectively? andre was a sambo champ i think and he got absolutely schooled on the ground by roy nelson. Fedor is also black belt and Master of Sports in Judo.

good point. to be honest the only good sambo fighters i know of are sergei aleks & fedro & andrei. all except fedor are known for their striking. im not saying it isnt a good base but i think the automatic stand up after like 30 seconds really hurts the transition into mma.