BB vs SB calling range

had an argument with my friend about this.
what is ur range for calling an SB's 3bb raise from the BB?

I think that in the lower stakes (NL50 and lower), most players play so badly OOP post-flop, that u should consider calling this with like 60-70% of ur range... and u can pick up alot of pots IP.

thoughts?

what will u call with vs:
1. a 20/17 reg
2. a 44/16 fish
3. random newbi at the table

1. depend's on reg's fold to 3 bet tendencies. I'll usually 3 bet a hand like A10o IP, but call with A10s, same goes with like k10o, and call with k10s. I'll call with a lot of low Axs, and 3 bet a lot of shitty aces. Now sure what to do about 10J, and JQ, maybe just call?

2. Fish i'll call with any ace, be happy with any ace flopped vs fish, i'll 3bet as low as K10s/Q10s for value also mid pp's.

3. Random newbie, 3 bet agressive so you can build an image early, most people won't try to play back early on.

Depends entirely on how much he opens. But if its >30% I honestly feel you can at least call with any two or raise.

Playing HU gives an interesting perspective on this: it's the same as a HU hand except that the BB has position. Or, more to the point, if you call it's like you opened the button in a HU hand and your opponent called, where his calling % is the same as the sum of the call + 3bet % in the BB in the HU hand.

Bottom line is you really should very rarely be folding. I think good case can be made for calling like 80+% of the time vs any % he opens.

wait wut? u mean hu? or do u mean opening in the sb facing a 3b from the bb?

oh wait i misread the question, i thought u meant calling from sb or bb facing an open in like mp, co, or btn.

if the sb opens into my bb my ranges for defending are a ton wider.

oh bb facing sb open in a ring game

many hands. many many hands. position is a good thing to have.

On February 08 2010 11:13 LikeASet wrote: 1. depend's on reg's fold to 3 bet tendencies. I'll usually 3 bet a hand like A10o IP, but call with A10s, same goes with like k10o, and call with k10s. I'll call with a lot of low Axs, and 3 bet a lot of shitty aces. Now sure what to do about 10J, and JQ, maybe just call?

I get the idea, but can u elaborate on why would u 3Bet ATo more than ATs? cuz it has less value?
if that's the reason than it's kind of a bluff, then wouldn't you be willing to 3B hands like 68s 78o?
I was thinking calling with ATo, don't see why raising is better- can u explain?


and sawseech- I mean ur the BB, it is folded around and SB made a standard raise...

what will u call with vs:
1. a 20/17 reg
2. a 44/16 fish
3. random newbi at the table

wut? the reg raises 17% total but that has nothing to do with his steal rates.
the fish raises 16% total but that has nothing to do with his steal rates
understand that placing broad labels on a player is not productive.

that said.

3b the reg for fun, flat him heavy sometimes, else 3b him for value, else call, else fold.

3b the fish for value, flat him heavy almost never unless he's ready to implode, rarely call, and fold just to let him win a pot once in awhile.

wutz a newbi?

On February 08 2010 12:21 rozyboy wrote: Show nested quote + On February 08 2010 11:13 LikeASet wrote: 1. depend's on reg's fold to 3 bet tendencies. I'll usually 3 bet a hand like A10o IP, but call with A10s, same goes with like k10o, and call with k10s. I'll call with a lot of low Axs, and 3 bet a lot of shitty aces. Now sure what to do about 10J, and JQ, maybe just call? I get the idea, but can u elaborate on why would u 3Bet ATo more than ATs? cuz it has less value? if that's the reason than it's kind of a bluff, then wouldn't you be willing to 3B hands like 68s 78o? I was thinking calling with ATo, don't see why raising is better- can u explain?

Basically i'm 3 betting certain hands preflop because they have less post flop value. With hands like A10o vs A10s, i'm more inclined to 3 bet A10o because i would prefer to take it down pre, and with A10s i'm glad to see a flop with A10s because there are more ways that I can win the pot with A10s vs A10o. A10s vs A10o is just an example, certain villain's i'll just call A10o especially if they're passive and play straightfoward. Yes i'd be willing to 3bet trash like 78o sometimes but it's not necessary. If a guy is calling a lot and folding to a lot of c bets then sure, 3 bet trash IP like no other. Also if you 3 bet a hand like A10s IP bvb, and the villain bluff 4 bets, it'd be pretty gay to fold a hand like A10s but you wouldn't worry too much if you had to fold A10o.

On February 08 2010 12:27 sawseech wrote: understand that placing broad labels on a player is not productive.

I was keeping it broad cuz I want this thread to be a general guidlines, less specific...

On February 08 2010 12:27 sawseech wrote: wutz a newbi?

like any random unknown that just sat down at the table... (that's not the definition of a newb but w/e)

Also when u 3bet hands like A10o, or K10o and are sometimes called, the flop can be A high dry, K high dry, or 10 high etc. Thus you have a 3 bet pot IP with top pair and it's easier to get thinner value in bvb.

Depending on the opponent, I'm probably calling with any hand I'm opening the CO with, give or take.

vs the lighter openers i make their lives hell by 3 betting them a shitton, not really much they can do cept fold. If they start 4 betting light then the money will start flyin around soon enough. if they do the 4 bet with the plan of folding often i'll prob just 5 bet jam trash and monsters. if they start calling light like AJs+ 66+ or whatever i'll prob start 5 bet jamming all hands with value such as AQ+ 77+ or something of that sort.

generally just shitting on them when they trying to get out of line OOP is the best choice. kinda hard to offset the disadvantage of position no matter how good you are.

It depends, I almost always prefer calling and 3bet a very polarised range because I love playing IP -.-

my calling range is any2

fuck the stealers, they ain't takin' my moneyz

Call with hands that play well against the specific player types you are against, def not 70% unless the guy literally opens every time.

3-bet AA and sometimes KK. Flat AKs and all pocket pairs 7 and up. Fold everything else.

On February 08 2010 15:29 Maynard! wrote: 3-bet AA and sometimes KK. Flat AKs and all pocket pairs 7 and up. Fold everything else.

I think you need to widen your trolling range a little, will get much more value then

ok- sample hand:
44
vs a tight player I guess ur flatting and playing mainly for set mining.
but do u 3BET against an aggressive player? what if he calls 3Bets alot? is flatting better?