FT Double Deuce, 77 in EP Late Game

Submitted by : exalted

Full Tilt Poker Game #17686532455: The $200K Double Deuce (126959722), Table 939 - 1200/2400 Ante 300 - No Limit Hold'em - 20:46:58 ET - 2010/01/17
Seat 1: jacob126b38 (117,411)
Seat 2: SiFuHai (19,848)
Seat 3: Bauguess (51,490)
Seat 4: tye007 (42,017)
Seat 5: yodb1 (24,600)
Seat 6: thchphntr (30,954)
Seat 7: exaltedsky (44,108)
Seat 8: samhuk (78,676)
Seat 9: cincw426 (38,661)
jacob126b38 antes 300
SiFuHai antes 300
Bauguess antes 300
tye007 antes 300
yodb1 antes 300
thchphntr antes 300
exaltedsky antes 300
samhuk antes 300
cincw426 antes 300
tye007 posts the small blind of 1,200
yodb1 posts the big blind of 2,400
The button is in seat #3

Holecards
Dealt to exaltedsky
thchphntr folds
exaltedsky has 15 seconds left to act
exaltedsky

shove or fold

i raise/fold to everyone but the bb and sifuhai

same
I was gonna include thchphntr to that but then noticed he had already folded
and I think open pushing 77 from EP with 18 BB is completely uneccesary, outright bad honestly.. bet-calling allin is much better, then you will at least sometimes be up against a worse hand than your own.

how can bet-calling allin be better when they will push a lot of hands that i'm flipping with?

we want them to fold hands like AQ AJ and KQ right

On January 18 2010 11:29 exalted wrote: how can bet-calling allin be better when they will push a lot of hands that i'm flipping with? we want them to fold hands like AQ AJ and KQ right

Because the calling range of a 18bb all in will be possibly alot tighter, than a range of someone trying to push you out of a pot on the button/blinds. You may also acutally take pot down alot if you raise small from EP, because when you are short your raise looks super strong, and people will fold alot, because they feel you will just play a stop and go play.

77 vs overcards is a flip where you have such an advantage (vs say, aq, its about 54-45 for you) that taking the flip 18bb deep is also something you have to be comfortable with.

but the main issue is that 22-66 are (player dependant) likely to repush, but they're almost never calling.

I always thought this was a fold
I dont see how smaller pairs would ever reshove over this for value :/

it's pretty much a steal but with some value vs the two 10bb guys

ok don't get me wrong, I am not advocating a bet/call without reads - I'm advocating bet/call over openshove. I'll bet-fold against other 18+ bb stacks unless they've given me the impression that they shove light.

ty that was probably a leak in my game. I was under the impression that if you open and not shove you are just asking for someone to resteal you, especially on a FT.

i like what wh00sel said but i am not sure about folding to most of the table....i mean do you really expect not to see like 4 combos of overcards as well as at least 3 smaller pairs in the shoving ranges of

cincw426 (38,661)
tye007 (42,017)
yodb1 (24,600)
thchphntr (30,954)
SiFuHai (19,848)

???

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 53.966% 53.30% 00.67% 684492924 8549688.00 { 44+, AJs+, KQs, AJo+, KQo }
Hand 1: 46.034% 45.37% 00.67% 582635700 8549688.00 { 77 }


i think raise/folding against at least half the table is missing a ton of value

ur prob getting flatted a lot in that field so open shove isnt bad either since ftp antes r huge and u need to accumulate more than anything

other posts in this thread r good as well

I raise to 5000 - make everyone else make a decision. If anyone shoves they probably have you beat and I'd fold, with the exception of the shortest stack. It's not like you have to shove or fold here, 5000 is not committing you to the pot in any way.

I hate the shove here tbh. You are never going to get called by a weaker hand.

On January 26 2010 09:56 breaktwister wrote: I raise to 5000 - make everyone else make a decision. If anyone shoves they probably have you beat and I'd fold, with the exception of the shortest stack. It's not like you have to shove or fold here, 5000 is not committing you to the pot in any way. I hate the shove here tbh. You are never going to get called by a weaker hand.

what? so AK, AQ, AJ just fold to a 15 bb shove lol?