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2 hands in 5$ big field tourney

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traxamillion   United States. Jan 16 2010 00:56. Posts 10468

I don't play tourneys much got kinda deep in this and had a few questions. at the point of these 2 hands its like 90/3.8k im a bit above average chiplead is like 800k or so.

Bet/call ? some thoughts

Submitted by : traxamillion



PokerStars Game #37977985871: Tournament #252010677, $5.00+$0.50 USD Holdem No Limit - Level XXIX (5000/10000) - 2010/01/10 22:09:01 ET
Table 252010677 238 9-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: Alina087 (259858 in chips)
Seat 2: DMPowers (183785 in chips)
Seat 3: Chuchuf (46591 in chips)
Seat 4: Bong_Sauce (167673 in chips)
Seat 5: TreBjorne (312377 in chips)
Seat 6: fkftp (369211 in chips)
Seat 7: sunystar (239895 in chips)
Seat 8: paul1286 (213198 in chips)
Seat 9: zobinette (249555 in chips)
Alina087: posts the ante 1250
DMPowers: posts the ante 1250
Chuchuf: posts the ante 1250
Bong_Sauce: posts the ante 1250
TreBjorne: posts the ante 1250
fkftp: posts the ante 1250
sunystar: posts the ante 1250
paul1286: posts the ante 1250
zobinette: posts the ante 1250
DMPowers: posts small blind 5000
Chuchuf: posts big blind 10000

Holecards
Dealt to fkftp JdKh
Bong_Sauce: folds
TreBjorne: folds
fkftp: raises 13333 to 23333
sunystar: folds
paul1286: folds
zobinette: folds
Alina087: calls 23333
DMPowers: folds
Chuchuf: folds

Flop (Pot : $72,916.00)

   QcKsJs
fkftp: bets 45555
Alina087: calls 45555

Turn (Pot : $164,026.00)

   QcKsJs4c
fkftp:



------

2nd hand

if i shove i get my stack up to about 120 if i fold and go through blinds im down to 80 or so. Just chill here or is shove +ev

Submitted by : traxamillion

PokerStars Game #37978063619: Tournament #252010677, $5.00+$0.50 USD Holdem No Limit - Level XXIX (5000/10000) - 2010/01/10 22:11:16 ET
Table 252010677 244 9-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: sphotrod (159708 in chips)
Seat 2: MP-071381 (412311 in chips)
Seat 3: bigkuntry34 (76368 in chips)
Seat 4: ShaaZaam (204073 in chips)
Seat 5: fabstenator (138046 in chips)
Seat 6: cooperz0311 (163756 in chips)
Seat 7: fkftp (108103 in chips)
Seat 8: el torrador (107984 in chips)
Seat 9: TheBaconMan (326248 in chips)
sphotrod: posts the ante 1250
MP-071381: posts the ante 1250
bigkuntry34: posts the ante 1250
ShaaZaam: posts the ante 1250
fabstenator: posts the ante 1250
cooperz0311: posts the ante 1250
fkftp: posts the ante 1250
el torrador: posts the ante 1250
TheBaconMan: posts the ante 1250
fabstenator: posts small blind 5000
cooperz0311: posts big blind 10000

Holecards(Odds)
Dealt to fkftp 9hKh
fkftp: raises 96853 to 106853 and is all-in
el torrador: folds
TheBaconMan: folds
sphotrod: folds
MP-071381: folds
bigkuntry34: folds
ShaaZaam: folds
fabstenator: raises 29943 to 136796 and is all-in
cooperz0311: folds
Uncalled bet (29943) returned to fabstenator

Flop(Odds) (Pot : $128,103.00)

   Qs7dTh

Turn(Odds) (Pot : $128,103.00)

   Qs7dThQd

River (Pot : $128,103.00)

   Qs7dThQdTs

Showdown
fabstenator: shows KsAh (two pair, Queens and Tens)
fkftp: shows 9hKh (two pair, Queens and Tens - lower kicker)
fabstenator collected 234956 from pot

Summary
Total pot 234956 | Rake 0
Board  Qs7dThQdTs
Seat 1: sphotrod folded before Flop (didnt bet)
Seat 2: MP-071381 folded before Flop (didnt bet)
Seat 3: bigkuntry34 folded before Flop (didnt bet)
Seat 4: ShaaZaam (button) folded before Flop (didnt bet)
Seat 5: fabstenator (small blind) showed KsAh and won (234956) with two pair, Queens and Tens
Seat 6: cooperz0311 (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 7: fkftp showed 9hKh and lost with two pair, Queens and Tens
Seat 8: el torrador folded before Flop (didnt bet)
Seat 9: TheBaconMan folded before Flop (didnt bet)


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chris   United States. Jan 16 2010 04:55. Posts 5511

hand 1: bet! villain has about 200k left and there 164k in pot. bet about 100k

hand 2: you can shove this.


hand 1 im guessing you did indeed bet and villain shoved, you called and you got coolered. i can see him flatting AT and flopping the nuts and extracting value by calling the flop and then raising the turn. but really what else are you afraid of there aside from T9s? KQ would probably 3bet more than flat, QQ KK JJ all raise pre and 44 likely folds on flop. so often he will have a hand like KT or QJ QT or TT.

hand 2 you have 10-11 bb. your M is 4, there is 26k or so in pot. you should be pushing K9s but its near the bottom of your Kx push range utg. you also have the option to fold and try to steal from the SB and BTN and CO.

5 minute showers are my 8 minute abs. - Neilly 

chris   United States. Jan 16 2010 05:52. Posts 5511

hand 1

i put together an estimated range where villain would commit more chips on the turn.

Board: Qc Ks Js
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 51.591% 47.85% 03.74% 42160 3296.50 { KhJd }
Hand 1: 48.409% 44.67% 03.74% 39357 3296.50 { TT, AcJc, AhJh, ATs, As9s, As8s, As7s, As6s, As5s, As4s, As3s, As2s, KcQc, KdQd, KcJc, KcTc, KdTd, Kc9c, Kd9d, QhJh, QsJs, QdTd, QhTh, QsTs, JcTc, JhTh, T9s, 9s8s, AcJh, AdJc, AdJh, AhJc, AsJc, AsJh, ATo, KcQd, KcQh, KcQs, KdQc, KdQh, KdQs, KcJh, KdJc, KdJh, KcTd, KcTh, KcTs, KdTc, KdTh, KdTs, QcJd, QdJc, QdJh, QdJs, QhJc, QhJs, QsJc, QsJh, QdT

in many scenarios he can call you pre flop and be a bit stubborn and float a flop. assuming he has a legit hand here, where he will be committing more chips and you don't rake the pot with a turn bet, you are essentially a flip to win albeit a tiny favorite. there are so many chips in the middle, you have a very strong hand and if you are up against the strongest hands he could realistically have you are still a 51.5/48.5 the pot is so big and your bet sizing and stacks create the scenario where you cannot really bet fold. you cannot put a 100k bet in and fold to a minraise getting 1 to 4.6 pot odds.


**hand 2

if you get called by 55+ ATo+ATs+KJs+KQo+, the top 9.7% of their range

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 35.794% 35.20% 00.60% 77750706 1314717.00 { Kh9h }
Hand 1: 64.206% 63.61% 00.60% 140507076 1314717.00 { AA, KcKd, KcKs, KdKs, QQ-TT, 9c9d, 9c9s, 9d9s, 88-55, AcKc, AdKd, AsKs, AQs-ATs, KcQc, KdQd, KsQs, KcJc, KdJd, KsJs, AcKd, AcKs, AdKc, AdKs, AhKc, AhKd, AhKs, AsKc, AsKd, AQo-ATo, KcQd, KcQh, KcQs, KdQc, KdQh, KdQs, KsQc, KsQd, KsQh }
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

if we assume you will get called a bit wider, 33+QJo+QTs+K9s+KTo+A8s+A9o+ the top 15.5% of their range:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 38.435% 36.84% 01.60% 126783371 5500708.00 { Kh9h }
Hand 1: 61.565% 59.97% 01.60% 206388317 5500708.00 { AA, KcKd, KcKs, KdKs, QQ-TT, 9c9d, 9c9s, 9d9s, 88-33, AcKc, AdKd, AsKs, AQs-A8s, KcQc, KdQd, KsQs, KcJc, KdJd, KsJs, KcTc, KdTd, KsTs, Kc9c, Kd9d, Ks9s, QTs+, AcK,d, AcKs, AdKc, AdKs, AhKc, AhKd, AhKs, AsKc, AsKd, AQo-A9o, KcQd, KcQh, KcQs, KdQc, KdQh, KdQs, KsQc, KsQd, KsQh, KcJd, KcJh, KcJs, KdJc, KdJh, KdJs, KsJc, KsJd, KsJh, KcTd, KcTh, KcTs, KdTc, KdTh, KdTs, KsTc, KsTd, KsTh, QJo }


when you shove i'd expect to get called about 44% of the time if the table is conservative and is calling the top 9.7% and about 70% if the table is looser and calls with the top 15.5%. in either event, you will take down the pot uncontested a fair amount of the time and when you do get called you still have a decent amount of equity in the hand.

5 minute showers are my 8 minute abs. - Neilly 

Chewits   United Kingdom. Jan 16 2010 06:23. Posts 2539

I think what is most important at this stage is to really have good reads on your opponents. You should be noting what their calling range is on button here vs a raise from EP etc. You should be noting how aggressive they are post flop. DO they always stab at pot if checked too IP, do they just check it down. Do they c/r alot etc etc etc. Basically, shit load of notes, and constantly watching the action especially when you are not playing. Things like do they get super aggressive with big draws on flop? When it gets deeper into tourney, having a lot of information on your opponents will hopefully give you an edge.

Also, when I raise pre flop at this stage of a tournament, I am going to be thinking why I am raising. Am I raising here to take some blinds down and just fire a cbet on flop? If I miss completely on flop, and am called by someone who has position, am I going to be firing that cbet with air? All these things etc are obviously worked out in a few seconds based on action preflop. So as soon as villain calls this preflop on the button, you really have to know what his range is here and what his normal lines are. Now for me, if I flop two pair, I am never folding this hand. This is probably the best opportunity to double up and really get lots of chips to put us into a position where we can win the tournament.

Regarding shoving, Chris covered this one. I do not think it is that bad shoving K9s here, but I do not see any harm folding it, as we are UTG, and there are alot of players that can come along here, you can still wait and hopefully shove any weak limps in the BB or shove from SB with a wider range alot of the time. Like I would rather shove K9s in bb vs 1 or 2 limpers than shove it in this spot. I am shoving K9s not to get a call, it is to get blinds and stay alive. Shoving from UTG makes it way more risky to be called.

Where did you end up busting out? At least I am sure you had fun playing. I love playing at these stages of the tournament, as usually most players are horrendous, and you can build a chip stack very quickly by just purely stealing blinds with small raises pre flop.

I am a degen. Do not believe in any of my advice.Last edit: 16/01/2010 06:25

traxamillion   United States. Jan 16 2010 14:38. Posts 10468

"
hand 1 im guessing you did indeed bet and villain shoved, you called and you got coolered. i can see him flatting AT and flopping the nuts and extracting value by calling the flop and then raising the turn. but really what else are you afraid of there aside from T9s? KQ would probably 3bet more than flat, QQ KK JJ all raise pre and 44 likely folds on flop. so often he will have a hand like KT or QJ QT or TT." -chris

pretty much my exact thoughts on the turn but I just didn't feel good about it. Got it ai and lost to A10ss.

I had got moved to the table about 5 hands before and the villain seemed competent but nothing too noticeable other than he stole blinds once with 14532 type betsizing. I was happy to just steal the blinds here but my hand has value vs his calling range which i think includes stuff like suited aces and connectors so on turn i think i need to bet but sucks to get shoved on.

hand 2

I thought the k9ss was pretty thin but I really wanted to play to win and thought I would steal the blinds enough; that last hand busted me out in 89th.

 Last edit: 16/01/2010 14:39

breaktwister   United Kingdom. Feb 08 2010 08:38. Posts 119

Hand 1: This is exactly why pro's don't raise from early/mid pos with KJo. Its a terrible terrible play, if you get called and hit your K you never know where you are in the hand. You had a nice stack and donked it off with a hand you should never ever have played.

Start considering raising KJo from cutoff at a minimum, primarily as a steal attempt but which can hit some paint if you get called.

Hand 2: Marginal play. Shoving is not bad here but I think you are going to get called about half the time and of those calls you are going to be behind 90% of the time. A short stack pushing from UTG always looks really weak and I see these plays gettin picked off by callers with Ax quite a bit. I would probably wait for the blinds and make a play in the next round.


 



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