[PLO200] River c/shove bluff?

Submitted by : TianYuan

***** Hand History for Game 1942058529 ***** IPoker
$200.00 USD PL Omaha - Saturday, November 07, 11:19:30 ET 2009
Table Bendorro Real Money
Seat 10 is the button
Seat 3: Jinro $270.42 USD
Seat 5: kvinne $188.15 USD
Seat 6: bollem $367.61 USD
Seat 8: FinMFactor $92.65 USD
Seat 10: peltikalle $206.20 USD
Jinro posts small blind [$1.00 USD].
kvinne posts big blind [$2.00 USD].

Holecards
Dealt to Jinro [ ]
bollem folds
FinMFactor folds
peltikalle folds
Jinro raises [$5.00 USD]
kvinne calls [$4.00 USD]

Flop (Pot : $11.00)

   
Jinro bets [$10.00 USD]
kvinne calls [$10.00 USD]

Turn (Pot : $31.00)

   
Jinro bets [$26.00 USD]
kvinne calls [$26.00 USD]

River (Pot : $83.00)

   
Jinro checks
kvinne bets [$84.00 USD]
Jinro minraises allin?

I folded cause I'm a little wuss but this makes no sense right? Can't really see what he's repping.

What would you do with KK** (or any other set) here?
Cry and push call.

Hes not folding any hand he is betting for value here. His betsizing almost puts him all in right?? With KK I am betting the river for value, or if I had checked, snap calling any bet. I think for this spot to be a checkraise bluff, you need alot of history. If you think he is doing this light, you need to be blockbet/folding the river sometimes, or checkraising the river for value and as a bluff.

Yeah he leaves himself with 60$, I'm pretty happy that I didn't click the all-in button LOL

I still have a bit of a hold'em mindset in that my first thought was "how the fuck can he have a good hand", totally forgetting about KQJ type hands lol.

But checking river with sets seems best with all the other draws that actually did miss right? I don't see that much value in a bet with the line he took.

if u dont want to give up the pot bet half pot on the river, but there's no way he is gonna go ZOMG u have QJ if u c/r. I would just check c/f.

Can you name 1 hand that isn't QJ that should be potting this river after I bet/bet/check?

I don't think a c/r is that good because there's a lot more ways he can have QJ than I initially thought (IE KQJ, or other pair+ QJ, or FD+QJ - but this hand might even ship the turn), BUT, I don't think the issue of a c/r is having him not believe me.

Basically, any strong hand that isn't QJ, is shipping the turn or the flop. So he's got {random missed draw, semi-strong hand turning itself into a bluff} or {QJ}, and can obviously not call when he doesn't have QJ.

if you're gonna bluff just bet it cring the river would just be lighting money on fire

I don't think good things are around the corner if you're going to pay off people in PLO every time they only rep 1 hand

I also think weak PLO players have a tendency to overvalue their hands' showdown value and check behind too much when their hand is weak enough to bluff - this makes their bluffing ranges really tiny because it's sooo easy for their missed draw to have a pair... not just because they have 4 cards, but also because more of those hands are still in their range while NLHE players would be more aggressive when they had pair+draw

an experienced NLHE player (that's you!) is used to weak players doing the exact opposite (undervalueing their showdown value and bluffing when their hand is really good enough to check & hope to somehow win), so that's trouble because you're conditioned to get the wrong feeling

so yeah i might be wrong about everything but i think c/R river here is probably awful and I also think you need to be wary of your 1st instinct when 99% of your poker experience was in another game

wow it sounds like i know what i'm talking about but i really don't so don't take what i said as gospel

by the way, what do u think about just betting river urself? Isn't it true that this is one of the weakest hand u could have here?

On November 10 2009 18:18 Jelle wrote: wow it sounds like i know what i'm talking about but i really don't so don't take what i said as gospel

LOL lovely line

Yeah I have to reign in my "lol he can't have anything" thoughts sometimes

I guess I can bet the river, simply to avoid being bluffed by flushdraws (or beat by like rivered pair of 9s). I didn't want to do it since all the draws missed but I don't know if I should let that stop me or not.

Does anyone have any thoughts on what you'd do on the river with say KK (or ANY set really, they are all the same at this point unless he somehow gets there with 99**)? Bet/fold (he can't raise worse, can he?), only problem being it seems his range for actually being able to call this should be extremely narrow? C/C to pick off bluffs (but, with what Jelle said about people usually overestimating their showdown value, maybe this isn't the best idea)?

correct me if i'm wrong but it seems pretty bad to bluff here given that villain has already committed well over half his stack already. Hard to fold 4 cards when you put in that much money no?

Well I'd be trying to fold out hands like... busted flushdraw with 1 pair (that's better than my bottom pair), not a set (he NEVER has a set tho, and he doesn't pot 2 pair).

i'd just bet riv often, like 61 or something, that'll fold out all them hands and prob k4/k5 n lower too on this stake.