PLO 2/4 mid set on turn by Joe

** Hand # 2708741554 starting - 2009-07-09 00:57:10
** Iago 2 [Omaha] (2.00|4.00 PL - Cash Game) Real Money

moumouth sitting in seat 1 with €122.00
TVHDK sitting in seat 2 with €2857.30
Joeik4 sitting in seat 3 with €1092.64
Dani_83 sitting in seat 4 with €400.00
KojGysto sitting in seat 5 with €400.00[Dealer]
MakeMeRaise sitting in seat 6 with €712.10
MakeMeRaise posted the small blind - €2.00
moumouth posted the big blind - €4.00

** Dealing cards to Joeik4: 4s, Qh, 3d, Qd
TVHDK folded
Joeik4 raised to €14.00
Dani_83 folded
KojGysto folded
MakeMeRaise called - €14.00
moumouth called - €14.00

** Dealing the flop: Ac, 7h, 8h
MakeMeRaise checked
moumouth checked
Joeik4 checked

** Dealing the turn: Qc
MakeMeRaise bet - €32.00
moumouth folded
Joeik4 raised to €138.00
MakeMeRaise raised to €456.00
Joeik4 ?


Villain is an aggro regular, stats 30/19 3bet 8. Dont know any more about his game though. I have been playing kinda loose, so far like 42/32 at this table. Overall my recent PLO stats are like 30/20 or something.

Edit: Just to note it, its almost 180bb deep.

I would shove 100% no doubt about it

This is closer than it looks. I think you have to get it in on principle but it is easier for you to have AA/QQ here than him and he should be aware of this so I'd give his raise a bit more credit than just a combo draw.

I think folding and getting it in are nearly equal here. I usually would flat the turn probably against an opponent this deep if I wasn't 100% on getting it in though.

I would also consider better preflop hand selection in the future.

Sean, if you flat the turn there, how do you play the river then?

I was basically only deciding between fold or allin, I thought calling would get me into a spot where I will make a mistake way too often.

AA would never check flop though, right?

AA could easily check if he was planning to check raise.

I flat the turn with the intention of reevaluating his turn bet. You can mix in some hero calls with the right reads even on iffy rivers. He is also more likely to give up or pot control even if the board did brick in the event he had a smaller set.

It's tough to say without knowing what hand ranges he plays but some guys never have 77 88 here and even less people will stick it in with those hands this deep against the original raiser. As it stands I think you really only beat combo draws against most competent players and if you're only getting it in against a range of AA or combo draws I think flatting is better.

He has to be scared of what you have as well come the river. There is some chance that he does have AA and by flattin this turn a Jh comes on the river and you can turn your hand into a bluff if he checks to you etc.

PLO is stupid.

I would almost never flat here.

On July 09 2009 03:23 DONKEYLUVIN wrote: AA could easily check if he was planning to check raise.

I was referring to when Nolan said it was easier for the hero to have AA/QQ. Hero is last to act on the flop, so I don't think he would have top set there since he can't go for a check/raise.

Oh yeah I agree, I don't think hero can ever have AA here....whether villain will notice this is another story.

I'd definately go allin here 100% I don't think theres enough to fold, 66 however.. I guess thats a pass... 77 perhaps too..

Obv 66 and 77 is the most likely hands in his range coupled with sick combo draws, way higher than AA imo

I'd also be content with folding preflop, but its not a huge leak

Villain will only have 230 or so left on the river. I don't think he's folding to completion cards but I've seen stranger things happen. That being said I think I just get it in here because there are two FD's on the board. It is close though. I suppose it would help a lot to know whether he always re-raises AAxx PF .

MEHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

This is a gross spot. I would probably shove and feel bad about it. I think big draws and lower sets can play like this as well. AQ with 2 spades or hearts can do this.

Let me think about it for two months and ill get back to you....

It's possible he has lower set since you checking the flop means even bottom set is 2nd nuts, but still unlikely. It just looks a whole lot like AA but the board is wet enough that he could be on a draw. I think the general concensus is that it's pretty even regardless of how you play it.