NL 10 - some draws

Hi. I am a new poster, but I have been lurking for a while. I have recently dropped back to NL10 after failing at NL50 and having to withdraw some cash. It sucks to be at NL10, but I realized how bad I actually was when I got to NL50 and I really want to use this time to study and revise the fundamentals of post flop play, where I make so many mistakes.

I beat NL10 and NL25 at 12bb/100 and 15bb/100 over 30K hands each, but I figured this is most likely because I was running good and that players at these levels are also not very good.

I want to post some HHs that mainly deal with playing draws and I would really appreciate some feedback here.

Thanks for taking the time to read and look forward to some replies.


Hand 1:

Villain is 20/10 and has check raise twice by this point.

Submitted by : gruffalo

***** Hand History for Game 29944794541 ***** Poker Stars
$10.00 USD NL Texas Hold'em - Tuesday, June 30, 08:30:12 ET 2009
Table Caupolican Real Money
Seat 3 is the button
Seat 2: hvoltage $13.95 USD
Seat 3: Hero $9.95 USD
Seat 4: Powerful_S $24.65 USD
Seat 5: powerBouwer $15.00 USD
Seat 6: aimee433 $10.00 USD
Powerful_S posts small blind [$0.05 USD].
powerBouwer posts big blind [$0.10 USD].

Holecards
Dealt to Hero
aimee433 calls [$0.10 USD]
hvoltage folds
Hero raises [$0.50 USD]
Powerful_S folds
powerBouwer folds
aimee433 calls [$0.40 USD]

Flop (Pot : $1.15)

   
aimee433 checks
Hero bets [$0.90 USD]
aimee433 raises [$2.20 USD]
Hero calls [$1.30 USD]

Turn (Pot : $5.55)

   
aimee433 bets [$4.00 USD]
Hero raises [$7.25 USD]
aimee433 folds
Hero wins $3.25 USD
Hero wins $12.90 USD from main pot

***** Hand History for Game 29945549915 ***** Poker Stars
$10.00 USD NL Texas Hold'em - Tuesday, June 30, 08:57:46 ET 2009
Table Mauritia Real Money
Seat 2 is the button
Seat 1: Mengs $10.35 USD
Seat 2: XM13X $12.15 USD
Seat 3: JMCR1 $10.00 USD
Seat 4: Hero $21.40 USD
Seat 5: Premier#1Fan $16.20 USD
JMCR1 posts small blind [$0.05 USD].
Hero posts big blind [$0.10 USD].

Holecards
Dealt to Hero
Premier#1Fan folds
Mengs folds
XM13X raises [$0.30 USD]
JMCR1 folds
Hero calls [$0.20 USD]

Flop (Pot : $0.65)

   
Hero checks
XM13X bets [$0.40 USD]
Hero calls [$0.40 USD]

Turn (Pot : $1.45)

   
Hero checks
XM13X checks

River (Pot : $1.45)

   
Hero bets [$1.10 USD]
XM13X calls [$1.10 USD]
Hero shows
Hero wins $3.50 USD from main pot
XM13X doesn't show

***** Hand History for Game 29945663450 ***** Poker Stars
$10.00 USD NL Texas Hold'em - Tuesday, June 30, 09:01:55 ET 2009
Table Suttung II Real Money
Seat 3 is the button
Seat 1: yomate $15.75 USD
Seat 3: Premier#1Fan $10.05 USD
Seat 4: James232003 $10.00 USD
Seat 5: Typhoonish $7.05 USD
Seat 6: Hero $12.15 USD
James232003 posts small blind [$0.05 USD].
Typhoonish posts big blind [$0.10 USD].

Holecards
Dealt to Hero
Hero raises [$0.30 USD]
yomate folds
Premier#1Fan raises [$1.10 USD]
James232003 folds
Typhoonish folds
Hero calls [$0.80 USD]

Flop (Pot : $2.35)

   
Hero checks
Premier#1Fan bets [$1.65 USD]
Hero folds
Premier#1Fan wins $1.65 USD
Premier#1Fan wins $2.25 USD from main pot

fold #1 and 2 pf

#3 bet flop or c/r him is fine from the stats you described

edit: lol didnt see #3 was 3bet, yeah i fold pf that too

30k hands is WAY low sample

Hand1 - I play it the same, although fold PF against 95% of villains.
You can isolate if he is really weak postflop, but if he bluff check-raises ever its not likely

Hand2- I donk or c/r flop, As played bet full pot river.
You can call hand2 if you are a pimp, its the high variance way but somewhat viable.

hand #3 if you're calling 3b oop preflop with that hand, I dunno how you can give up so easily on that flop? seems like if you're going to fold here you should've just folded pf. I'd probably c/shove that flop expecting to be drawing to 11 or 12 outs if he calls.

i like the advice given.

On June 30 2009 13:59 LemOn[5thF] wrote: 30k hands is WAY low sample

this is why i explained it was probably me running good. i think in the long term i am just a break even player.

On June 30 2009 14:11 Raguna wrote: hand #3 if you're calling 3b oop preflop with that hand, I dunno how you can give up so easily on that flop? seems like if you're going to fold here you should've just folded pf. I'd probably c/shove that flop expecting to be drawing to 11 or 12 outs if he calls.

i totally agree. thanks for the reply

On June 30 2009 13:59 LemOn[5thF] wrote: 30k hands is WAY low sample Hand1 - I play it the same, although fold PF against 95% of villains. You can isolate if he is really weak postflop, but if he bluff check-raises ever its not likely

i isolated him because he was a donk. but maybe i need to pick my isolations more carefully. i definitely like isolating weak/tight players, but is it also not good to isolate this 93/35 type players?

Know just who it is you're isolating. All fish are not created equal.

Against a 40/2 loose passive fish who limp/calls a lot and just likes to see flops, iso with basically anything playable because you can profit massively by taking down pots uncontested postflop. 94s is a pretty weak hand even to iso this kind of player with unless he really folds the vast majority of hands postflop. Some players with these kind of stats fold a ton, some are very stationy.

Against an 80/40 aggrofish who loves to raise and bluff, isoing with weak hands is suicide because he will so often blow you off of them. If he likes to bet and bluff, you want to have a stronger range than him. Against this type of player, tighten up by dropping the speculative end of your range (small suited cards) but widen the range of hands you iso and 3bet with for value. A hand like QJ or KT that is normally not too great due to reverse implied odds is much stronger against this kind of player because you'll often make top pair hands (which he can't bluff you off of because it's so strong against him) and because he plays so many hands that he has lots of dominated kings, queens, and jacks in his range.

On June 30 2009 16:03 rgfdxm wrote: Know just who it is you're isolating. All fish are not created equal. Against a 40/2 loose passive fish who limp/calls a lot and just likes to see flops, iso with basically anything playable because you can profit massively by taking down pots uncontested postflop. 94s is a pretty weak hand even to iso this kind of player with unless he really folds the vast majority of hands postflop. Some players with these kind of stats fold a ton, some are very stationy. Against an 80/40 aggrofish who loves to raise and bluff, isoing with weak hands is suicide because he will so often blow you off of them. If he likes to bet and bluff, you want to have a stronger range than him. Against this type of player, tighten up by dropping the speculative end of your range (small suited cards) but widen the range of hands you iso and 3bet with for value. A hand like QJ or KT that is normally not too great due to reverse implied odds is much stronger against this kind of player because you'll often make top pair hands (which he can't bluff you off of because it's so strong against him) and because he plays so many hands that he has lots of dominated kings, queens, and jacks in his range.

this is great advice. thanks!

wtf is hand #3

Hand3: fold PF.

Now raise/get it in, this is the best flop for you after flopped straight and flush maybe AJ ;o

On July 01 2009 06:24 LemOn[5thF] wrote: Hand3: fold PF. Now raise/get it in, this is the best flop for you after flopped straight and flush maybe AJ ;o

why are we looking to get it in on a FD? is it because of this flop does not have any broadways?

to further my query about isolation. with the same type of player from hand one, is it ok to isolate with J3s, K4s, Q5s type hands?

On July 01 2009 08:07 gruffalo wrote: Show nested quote + On July 01 2009 06:24 LemOn[5thF] wrote: Hand3: fold PF. Now raise/get it in, this is the best flop for you after flopped straight and flush maybe AJ ;o why are we looking to get it in on a FD? is it because of this flop does not have any broadways? to further my query about isolation. with the same type of player from hand one, is it ok to isolate with J3s, K4s, Q5s type hands?

Yes You fold out hand that have equity against you, + you have a very good draw. You have to realise, that once the turn does not complete your draw, your equity goes way down in the pot. You just wont have the odds to call another bet.

you get it in, because 99% of the time an aggro fish 3bets he's going to do a continuation bet. Therefore, he could be doing this with anything from KJo to AA. So you're folding everything out except for QQ KK AA. When he's 3betting 9% of his hands, those 3 hands is such a small portion of his range. you're usually good.

Also, let's assume he has KK or QQ. You shove, he calls. What outs do you have? you have the 3 other aces, and every other spade (9 more in the deck). That means you have 12 outs. 12 multiplied by 4 = 48% That means if he has KK or QQ you are winning 48% of the time (the very top of his range, you're a 48% favorite)

And remember maybe he's completely retarded and will shove 1010 here as well. If he has 1010 that's 3 more outs, and you are ahead 57% to 43%. Making this play very EV.




edit: i usually only isolate from the cut off or button because of having so many more people left behind you to act. Don't isolate from MP unless you have a very strong hand, or else the cut off or button, or even the blinds may have a much stronger hand.

When I isolate a limper from early/mid position, i'm usually raising anything that beats his limping range. For instance, if he's only playing 10% of his hands, and raising 2%, meaning he's limping with every two broadway hands, but raising with only QQ+ then i'm not going to isolate unless I have AQs+ to get ahead of his range.

If he is limping 100% of his hands, then you can isolate with more marginal hands like A8s, Q10, etc... but don't isolate if you have someone behind you who loves to 3bet or play as well, as you're getting money in with a marginal hand multi-way which can get dangerous

thanks very much. these are very clear explanations.

gruff