3bet pots in position.

lets say you get 3bet from the blinds at your average 25NL 6max ring game and you flat with 10s.

board comes a King and two other cards below your tens.

Example: Kh 8c 5d

now.. the 3better is c-betting any flop like this (usually about 4.50 into a 6 dollar pot).

im no EV magician.. which is why im posting here in the first place.

question: is it + or - EV to flat here?

my reasoning for flatting:

it looks so strong here.. and it lets you see what he does on the turn. it narrows his leading range on the turn down to AA AK or KK. i feel a lot of the time they will be checking back the rest of their range and you can take it down on the turn. for some reason i feel everyone puts you on AK when you flat preflop and on the flop, but they have to c-bet on the flop tryin to rep that AK.

maybe youre gettin check raised on the turn, maybe not.

only problem is.. the only other 3betting hands at 25NL i can think of are AQs QQ and JJ, maybe KQs from a looser player. kids dont really 3bet/squeeze with much worse @ 25NL soo.. im not really sure if this is +EV. i have been having some success with this play lately though, but i wonder if its just some random luck im getting where they dont hit.

sidenote: you can substitute a Queen for the King on the flop, but things get flipped a bit. you try to rep AQ instead obviously, hoping their AK missed.

id like some feedback please. because if this is a leak id like to stop. spanks.

read dependant, but i don't like calling with TT in a 3bet pot.

folding flop is pretty normal if ur set mining, but generally ur going to be in a shitty situation

alrighty thanks.

On June 30 2009 00:12 Zalfor wrote: read dependant, but i don't like calling with TT in a 3bet pot. folding flop is pretty normal if ur set mining, but generally ur going to be in a shitty situation

ummm, flatting with TT IP in 3bets is super duper unless he 3bets like 3% or less, and you're not setmining when you do it. You're playing a bloated pot IP with one of the best hands you can be dealt.

This is villain dependent. Very important to learn as fast as possible how often villain double barrels. If villain doesn't double barrel without a hand then call flop, check turn, and probably check river (maybe thin value bet if he's a station). If villain double barrels Kxxx boards in a 3bet pot as a bluff (aka he's somewhat tricky) then just fold to his cbet and don't think anything of it.

The absolute worst thing you can do with 10s in a spot like your describing is raising his cbet or betting turn. Both of these lines turn your hands into bluffs. Also Sicks Macks is correct. Your not setmining with TT unless villains 3bet is 3% or lower.

On June 30 2009 00:12 Zalfor wrote: read dependant, but i don't like calling with TT in a 3bet pot. folding flop is pretty normal if ur set mining, but generally ur going to be in a shitty situation

Unless villain is nit tight or super loose calling on btn vs a 3bet from the blinds is by far the best way to play TT. Most ppls shove ranges will be JJ+/AK so 4betting is terrible. This also isn't a shitty spot, it's a very standard spot.

lets say you get 3bet from the blinds at your average 25NL 6max ring game

then i fold like everything ever

its good to flat ip. ( i thot he oop) but most nl25 players are mega nits

you forget. even though he may be betting >50% hands that you beat that are in his 3betting range, you have further streets to play. and can you play those streets profitably?

also the K is a bad card, id prefer a Jhi flop.

also a few other things-

if they have AK/AQ and hit on further streets.

reverse implied odds when low cards come on flop and u put lots of money in.

him cbetting QQ OOP and still winning at showdown (assuming he does give up)

-------- I SHOULD MENTION I PLAY FR, NOT 6max. so take advice with a pinch of salt

It doesn't matter if you play HU, 6max or FR, its the question of equity against a range you choose, and it varies opponent by opponent

Board: some random ranbow K26

Lets take a nit: he will 3bet OOP with AK+, JJ+

Your call with K on flop is automatically -EV, your call preflop has 33% equity. (although you can call if he makes the mistake of 3betting too low to set mine and get the implied odds in this case)


Now lets take the value defender - he would 3bet you with JJ+, AJo+, ATs+ KQs, KQo.

Your equity preflop is 46%+you got position, so you can make the call. Your equity on the flop is 36%

A simple situation NL25:

You raise 0.75 and get 3bet to $3 (some people even 3bet to $3 when you raise $1 oop).
You have to call 4.50 into 10.50, getting 1:2.33 pot odds, while you have 36% equity (so you could make the call there actually based on pure equity) That is if he 3bets 100% of his range.


The problem comes on turn.
Is he capable of double barrel on another low card? Will you fold when he does?
Is he ever capable of bluffing with AJ on KQ flop or AQ on KJ flop (I know I do with the dumb regs who just call small/medium pocket pairs to a 3bet AND call on K flop)


If he is, your equity decreases sharply as you have some negative FE, making your flop call -EV.

So the only person with this range you can call on flop is the kind who always checks on turn when he misses.



This range is very simple, and you can hardly put someone on this exact range (a thinking player will not 3bet non-adjusting nits with strong hands like AQs if they fold too much and will do it only with low sc, unsuited connectors and QQ+ to negate implied odds for example)