pair + fd 3bet pot 2bi deep

villain running 33/27 fold to 3bet 67 over 540 hands sample, not too much action between the two of us at all but i saw him getting tricky from time to time vs others, i know that he is one of the best regulars, so whats your line on the turn here? or maybe smth different on the flop?

Submitted by : MysticJoey

Full Tilt Poker Game #11220650691: Table Fay (deep 6) - $5/$10 - No Limit Hold'em - 11:16:06 ET - 2009/03/19
Seat 1: moi_rhums33 ($3,097), is sitting out
Seat 2: Igor946 ($2,044), is sitting out
Seat 3: KATOK_RUS ($1,259)
Seat 4: Hero ($3,303.25)
Seat 5: sk1952 ($748)
Seat 6: 20 Buck Spin ($1,963.20)
KATOK_RUS posts the small blind of $5
Hero posts the big blind of $10
The button is in seat #6

Holecards
Dealt to Hero
sk1952 folds
20 Buck Spin raises to $30
KATOK_RUS folds
Hero raises to $120
20 Buck Spin has 15 seconds left to act
20 Buck Spin calls $90

Flop (Pot : $245.00)

   
moi_rhums33 stands up
Storkdelamork adds $2,000
Hero bets $162
20 Buck Spin has 15 seconds left to act
20 Buck Spin calls $162

Turn (Pot : $569.00)

   
Hero

you're pretty likely to have the best hand imo

410

checking here puts you in such a weird spot and I find it pretty unlikely you will get raised a huge percentage of the time so I like betting.

On March 19 2009 12:23 SakiSaki wrote: checking here puts you in such a weird spot and I find it pretty unlikely you will get raised a huge percentage of the time so I like betting.

this, and just that betting opens u up to a lot of options like getting max value on river w/ 2pair+ or allows u to bluff if a high card peels, and it protects u from weak draws, etc..

if villain flats and turn is 2c are we c/c'ing always?

On March 19 2009 16:32 nolan wrote: if villain flats and turn is 2c are we c/c'ing always?

it's 20buckspin we are c/shoving for value

but fwiw i am reluctant to 3bet hands that don't make good top pair type holdings against 20buckspin bc he plays like that so i'd rather have like QJ and flop J63 and be happy getting it in or w/e

like that? you mean what, some new reads would be helpfull

its kinda a tricky spot b/c if we check he bets when he has air but he checks behind a ton w/ hands that beat us and we cant push him off those hands by checking turn and betting river. if we bet, we can represent something huge by betting turn and shoving river if we dont hit, or betting turn and betting river either big or small depending on the card we hit, but this is only good if u think he has something good but marginal.

i guess the best line when it really comes down to it is how much he floats u on the flop and how much hes going to call u down for a 400bb pot.

if we bet and he shoves, we fold right? lol

On March 19 2009 17:06 [vital]Myth wrote: but fwiw i am reluctant to 3bet hands that don't make good top pair type holdings against 20buckspin bc he plays like that so i'd rather have like QJ and flop J63 and be happy getting it in or w/e

x a million

bet turn i think he rarely shoves a turn bet

then jam pretty much every river

and if you know that he floats you a lot on that flop, those it make c/r on the turn more reasonable? or is it still bet bet shove

On March 19 2009 19:59 n0rthf4ce wrote: its kinda a tricky spot b/c if we check he bets when he has air but he checks behind a ton w/ hands that beat us and we cant push him off those hands by checking turn and betting river. if we bet, we can represent something huge by betting turn and shoving river if we dont hit, or betting turn and betting river either big or small depending on the card we hit, but this is only good if u think he has something good but marginal. i guess the best line when it really comes down to it is how much he floats u on the flop and how much hes going to call u down for a 400bb pot.

he's 20buckspin we are shoving river for value

If you're all gonna deliberately mislead people, then I should probably restrain from posting as I don't see what I gain from this. But really... You have no other option than to check/call. Betting turn and shoving river is about the most obvious bluff in the world and pretty pointless, since we have good showdown value. (shoving diamond rivers is even more obvious as it polarizes our range even further even if we do play our diamond draws this way most of the time and bluff only rarely, not that buck spin gives a fuck... And I'd think that hands like 89 8T 85s are much better suited for that) You can rationalize that bet-calling turn is cool, but if you're not overly optimistic about his shoving range, you'll realize that there's nothing to be happy about when he shoves. (So your argument is kinda "It's fucking Buck Spin, lol" LOL) Check-calling turn lets him bluff and protects our good equity and implied odds, without pointlessly putting money in with no better idea than "I has a pretty hand".

I can see one reason for why you're all defending betting, as you're probably very uncomfortable towards check-calling turn with a good hand. Only shows you need to think more creatively with your good hands. If you're so scared that he will read your hand for what it is and will bluff shove river a ton, then you should probably think of that when you actually have a good hand in this spot. Or simply call river with your pair of sixes. What are you afraid of?

And for the record I don't like neither preflop nor flop.