QQ preflop

Hi, what is your standart play against unknown villain here ? Second hand on the table without stats. Do we stack off here with QQ ? His call/push line looks like a monster hand, but I think peoples can do this sometimes with AK so I did some pokerstove calculations here with this result and it looks like a fold :

Board:
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 34.154% 31.67% 02.48% 11387605 893547.50 { QcQd }
Hand 1: 65.846% 63.36% 02.48% 22783684 893547.50 { QQ+, AhKh, AsKs, AcKd, AcKh, AcKs, AdKh, AdKs, AhKs }


Submitted by : joker

Texas Hold'em $0.20-$0.40 NL (5 max) (real money), hand #P4-85466984-258
Table Grand Rapids, 6 Jan 2009 11:30 AM
Seat 1: mktutsi33 ($21.39 in chips)
Seat 2: xSimonPx ($24.33 in chips)
Seat 3: Mazaa85 ($29.01 in chips)
Seat 4: budi9 ($18.90 in chips)
Seat 5: Jo_er ($20 in chips)
ANTES/BLINDS
budi9 posts blind ($0.10)
Jo_er posts blind ($0.20).

Preflop
mktutsi33 calls $0.20
xSimonPx folds
Mazaa85 bets $0.90
budi9 calls $0.80
Jo_er bets $3.30
mktutsi33 folds
Mazaa85 folds
budi9 bets $18
and is all-in
Jo_er

arrrrrrrin

if he has AA/KK, then cooler.

fold to 4bet or get it in, depends on villian.

id fold and note him and next time im pushing 88+ AQo+ in this kinda spot vs him

i always shove QQ here.

like always.

If you're going to fold here, why squeeze with QQ? Do you think he flats with worse pre? I honestly like flatting pre at NL10, if I squeeze here, it's with the intention of calling a shove.
fwiw without reads I think this is a fold and note, kind of like what Spitfiree said.

jesus christ you guys are nits...it's 5 handed, vs unknown this is always going in

On January 06 2009 11:07 YoMeR wrote: i always shove QQ here. like always.

+9000

what's the point of even 3 betting if you're gonna fold

it's nl20, imo he has mid pp, people at micro don't flat premiums, if he had kk or aa it doesn't matter, we're not result oriented

i think he has aa/kk ~ 20% of time, pp like 60% of time, aq/aj 10% and 10% random shit

On January 06 2009 12:00 Into Infinity wrote: what's the point of even 3 betting if you're gonna fold

i dont understand this logic. a lot of people at micros will call 3bets very very light but will never ever 4bet shove without anything but AA/KK. why do 3bets have to commit us?

3bet doesn't commit us....

Into Infinity: it's another guy who 4-bets us as well (not the original raisor)

I think you can fold here.

And what your_killer said is also true; 3-betting QQ and folding to a 4-bet is fine if people call w/ all tons of junk and shoves/4-bets with only better hands.

Calling is not that crazy tough, but I doubt your ahead of a caller/4bettor in this case.

But looking him up w/ QQ is not terrible, at least you got 34 % against the absolute top range.

On January 06 2009 13:35 YoUr_KiLLeR wrote: Show nested quote + On January 06 2009 12:00 Into Infinity wrote: what's the point of even 3 betting if you're gonna fold i dont understand this logic. a lot of people at micros will call 3bets very very light but will never ever 4bet shove without anything but AA/KK. why do 3bets have to commit us?

main point is why 3bet QQ if you are going to fold. If you are planning to play postflop then you can probably take just as much value from them by flatting pre and playing well postflop.

On January 06 2009 11:07 Spitfiree wrote: id fold and note him and next time im pushing 88+ AQo+ in this kinda spot vs him

that doesn't make any sense to me at all. Please explain logic behind that.

On January 06 2009 11:07 YoMeR wrote: i always shove QQ here. like always.

this...folding QQ pre vs unknown in a 5 handed game is beyond terrible. Many ppl will take this same line w/ crap cuz they r trying to make a move a take the pot down when you squeeze cuz they assume u r just making a move by squeezing. AA/KK take the cooler and move on, note that he flatted with those hands pre.

And for the record people usually 4-bet AA/KK smaller and shoves AKo like this (at least on micro stakes)

LOL at the thought of turning QQ into a bluff pre then value shoving 88+ and AQo+

oh my god.

On January 06 2009 16:17 SpasticInk wrote: And for the record people usually 4-bet AA/KK smaller and shoves AKo like this (at least on micro stakes)

I though the same and called, he had KK.

main point is why 3bet QQ if you are going to fold. If you are planning to play postflop then you can probably take just as much value from them by flatting pre and playing well postflop.

to isolate

On January 06 2009 17:14 vlseph wrote: main point is why 3bet QQ if you are going to fold. If you are planning to play postflop then you can probably take just as much value from them by flatting pre and playing well postflop. to isolate

wp...forgot this pot was three way preflop

On January 06 2009 11:07 Spitfiree wrote: id fold and note him and next time im pushing 88+ AQo+ in this kinda spot vs him

so you'd fold queens but not 88 or AQo? lolwut

On January 06 2009 13:35 YoUr_KiLLeR wrote: i dont understand this logic. a lot of people at micros will call 3bets very very light but will never ever 4bet shove without anything but AA/KK. why do 3bets have to commit us?

are we not 3 betting for value? vs an unknown we know nothing about how tight he is, so his range can be anything from TT+, AQs+, AKo+, which i have seen people do before at micro.

On January 06 2009 16:14 SpasticInk wrote: Into Infinity: it's another guy who 4-bets us as well (not the original raisor)

eh, didn't realize this. it makes folding OK, but honestly i'm still getting it in preflop with QQ 5 handed vs an unknown. folding is incredibly weak tight IMO.

another thing, you say this is your 2nd hand but you're in the big blind? you shouldn't be posting unless you're in the blinds

"another thing, you say this is your 2nd hand but you're in the big blind? you shouldn't be posting unless you're in the blinds"

ahh my mistake ... actually it was 1st hand