Moz - Quick SNG Question

Hi,

Just curious about what you recommend the number of BI for the double your money tournys on stars would be? standard for SNGs seems to be 30 BI, am i correct in thinking that 20BI would seem about right as you only need to come in top 5...

thanks.

moz.

I'm anxious to see what people would say, but I would have to say that would be good. Since if you're a good SNG player, you know to hold off splashing around until some of the people are eliminated. I don't know the deep math into this though (if any)

ChoboPokeR_r is always at my tables

standard for SNGs seems to be 30 BI

Standard for SNGs is 100.

In normal sngs standard downswing is like 40-50 buyins so even if those double your money things have smaller variance because of stucture I wouldn't ever play with less than 50 buyins.

100? wow... that seems excessive?!?! thought it was 100 for MTTs...

mtt players also often use 100 buyins rule too but sngs do not have significantly smaller variance. Actually most players at higher sng games have way more than 100 buyins bankroll, because the edge sustainable is so ridiculously small.

I can see that at higher buy-ins, your edge goes down - but I thought it was 5% of your roll for SNG/cash buy-ins and 2% for MTT (I do 1% for MTT and 3% for SNG/cash) - maybe I'm doing it all wrong for SNG's....although I don't play them too often. Good to know though, maybe I'm under-rolling myself for SNG's when I do play them.

what limit double or nothings do you play?

I do not think good players should waste time playing double or nothings. The more the money is weighted towards the top, the more the best players are rewarded.

Obviously with MTT's your chance of scoring is way lower but the payout is higher, so more variance. With SNG's when you go up in limits you need more buyins just like in cash game.

This doesn't have much to do with the money, but with your skill edge decreasing as your opponents get better when you go up in stakes. The variance is pretty much the same but now your downswings actually cost money instead of you breaking even (example cashgame: 3ptbb winner in a downswing will for example be a -2ptbb loser in a downswing while an 8ptbb winner will still be a 3ptbb winner in a downswing, bad example but you see where I'm getting at). So at the lowest limits 30 buyins can be fine, while you're moving up you should use a safer bankroll management as you progress through the stakes.

ty twisted

chris - i play the $20.80 ones - 12 at a time and it seems very profitable.

Like Twisted says, the smaller your edge, the bigger your variance, so the bigger bankroll you need. Although not science, the following is the guideline for myself which I've developed from my experience, using my edge as a basis. This is also a pretty aggressive structure, focused on moving up. I always drop down if I dip below my minimum for a level. $38 is my preferred level, so I do not necessarily move up if I have a large roll, I just consider those two figures at the bottom the minimum at which I'd normally allow myself to play those stakes.

SNG buy-in, bankroll, number of buy-ins:
$1: $10, 10
$3: $45, 15
$6: $120, 20
$16: $400, 25
$27: $800, 30
$38: $1400, 36
$60: $3000, 50
$100: $6000, 60

Now that's more like it....I kinda thought 100 BI's at all levels was a little excessive since you'll be cashing a lot more in SNG's (hopefully!) than in MTT's....

Nice chart!

lol the variance doesn't get bigger, your winrate is just lower

that's what I said

oh well

Well maybe I'm not defining variance very well. But I meant what you said, that you experience more and longer periods of losing when your edge is smaller.

If you don't want to move down at all, you plan on playing your current level long term, and you're not going to have to make frequent withdrawals which drastically affect your bankroll, 100 buy-ins for single-table SNG's is good. I'd do it if I could. By the same token, 100 buy-ins would be a ludicrously small amount for playing large online tournaments under these same conditions.

ya just nitpicking =]

its impossible to loose at double or nothing sit'n gos.