[Q] When to CBET?

I'm having trouble on times when I am raising from earlyposition and i miss the flop, when should I CBET?

My rules:

A) don't EVER cbet OOP if your opponent isn't capable of folding and you don't have too many outs
b) Dont Cbet if there's not a high card out, at least a Q.
c) Don't cbet if there are 2 high cards coz it's more likely that they hit, and if you make the cbet, at these limits, many players will only call and thus give you no information.
d) don't cbet on scary flops like all same suit, or paired board, coz they tend to induce bluffs and you don't want to get into these situations with nothing.

--- Nuked ---

dont listen to nite

well listen to his rule #1 but not the others

On September 06 2008 17:35 devon06atX wrote: ur playing 5nl, so i'm assuming ur playing a solid tag style - not fucking around too much/raising with rags on the button or cutoff so ur prolly raising all pps, ak,aq,aj,a10 if no one's entered, and higher SC's? if so, Cbet all the fucking time. if ur opponent has piss poor fold to cbet %, then dont. otherwise, just cbet

Does not compute! Who the hell folds at nl5? And when ever at NL5 will u be in a HU pot?

P.S.: i really just abuse HUD for this and the range of boards i will cbet solely fluctuates dependent on that. I guess it is a little bit stractured at higher stakes but at NL25 there are plenty of people whod never fold to cbet and plenty of people whod fold to cbet even when having something semi-nice

This is what pokertracker is great for. At low stakes, I find that just looking at someone's fold to cbet % and betting flops you don't hit at a 2/3 pot amount HU against players who folds 50% or more is very profitable. Otherwise C-bet if you have a piece. Against more aggressive players, c/r flops can be more profitable, and an especially good alternative on low boards where your c-bet will look full of shit.

On September 06 2008 17:11 SugoGosu wrote: I'm having trouble on times when I am raising from earlyposition and i miss the flop, when should I CBET?

Position is everything to CBET, so when you are in a earlyposition and got called you will never know if the other made his hand so a CBET there could end up being a waste of money. I would wait for his action and depending on his action I would react:

if he checks then you need to raise immediately after the next card
if he raises less than 50% of the pot I would triple his bet to make sure he is not CBetting me
if he raises more than 50% then I would fold

Brgds,
Tuk

....use the search feature.

And use it again. On 2+2.

urwelcome. ^^

use ur brain

gl hf

On September 06 2008 17:35 devon06atX wrote: ur playing 5nl, so i'm assuming ur playing a solid tag style - not fucking around too much/raising with rags on the button or cutoff so ur prolly raising all pps, ak,aq,aj,a10 if no one's entered, and higher SC's? if so, Cbet all the fucking time. if ur opponent has piss poor fold to cbet %, then dont. otherwise, just cbet

fml x5

On September 06 2008 18:35 tuktuk200 wrote: Position is everything to CBET, so when you are in a earlyposition and got called you will never know if the other made his hand so a CBET there could end up being a waste of money. I would wait for his action and depending on his action I would react: if he checks then you need to raise immediately after the next card if he raises less than 50% of the pot I would triple his bet to make sure he is not CBetting me if he raises more than 50% then I would fold Brgds, Tuk

what??
"position is everything...if he checks you need to raise...after the next card." so he is asking about cbet on flop and that didn't answer his Q unless i missed something??
"if he raises less than 1/2 pot i would triple his bet to make sure he is not cbetting" at these stakes anything less than 1/2 pot is 90% of time the nuts b/c they try to take you to valuetown like no other.
"If he raises more than 50% i would fold"
maybe??

this mutual vendetta between eightfourO and devon is adorable
FML to INFINITY AND BEYOND

Continuation bets are exactly what the name implies. They are a continuation of pre-flop aggression, designed to win the pot if the pre-flop raiser missed the flop, or continue to build a pot when ahead. When continuation bets are used successfully, they are an important money making weapon of the solid poker player. When continuation bets are used incorrectly, typically by beginners who over use the concept, they can become a marginal, or even money losing play. This article is going to look at how to maximize your continuation bets by examining pre-flop situations, flop textures, betting sizes, and opponent player types, in order to make your continuation bets as successful as possible.
The primary goal of solid continuation bet play should be to win your missed flops with continuation bets 50% of the time or more. The proper use of pre-flop raises, betting sizes, and balance, are important components in achieving better than break even numbers with your continuation bets. You can however, win only 35% of your continuation bets and still be profitable with them, as long as you make your continuation bet sizes small enough to provide for a higher failure rate. For example, here are the 3 common continuation bet sizes:

(½ the pot) If the Pot is 12BB and you make a continuation bet of only 6BB then you need to be successful only 34% of the time.
(¾ of the pot)If the pot is 12BB and you make a continuation bet of 8BB, then you need to be successful 41% of the time.
(Full pot size)If the pot is 12BB and you make a continuation bet of 12BB, then you need to be successful 51% of the time.

When determining the appropriate continuation bet size when you miss, you want to choose the minimum size you think will win you the pot with the least amount of risk. In a perfect world you could bet ¼ of the pot when you miss, and win the pot over 50% of the time. Then you could bet the full pot size when you connect with the flop and get called over 50% of the time. Unfortunately most opponents that are paying attention at all will soon catch on to your varying bet size. So the best way to combat this is to use two very similar bet sizes for your continuation bluff bets, and vary between them depending upon the flop texture and the types of opponents you face. This will create a randomizing effect that will be very difficult for your opponents to pick up, and at the same time maximize your profits.
At small stakes No-limit Holdem the most optimal play is to vary your continuation bet sizes between ¾ of the pot and the full size of the pot. If you do this effectively enough, you can vary your bet sizes to provide you with slightly better odds when you do miss, and build an effective pot when you do connect. For example, when you miss the flop, if you don’t bet at all ~20% of the time, bet the full size of the pot ~50% of the time, and ¾ of the pot the remaining ~30% of the time, you are keeping your opponents guessing, while remaining intimidating at the same time. Also, if you bet the full size of the pot ~85% of the time when you connect, and ¾ of the pot the remaining ~15% of the time, you are again keeping your opponents guessing, while tilting the odds in your favor. You will however have to adjust these percentages depending upon your own style of play (See “The type of player you are” at the end of the article).
So let’s take a rough example of this and say that your opponent calls half of the time, and folds the other half of the time, which is a fairly rough and approximate representation of small stakes No-limit Holdem. Let’s also say that the pot size is 12BB and we simulate this 100 times. Let’s also assume that you NEVER improve after continuation betting. The net result will look as follows simluate 100x:

20% of the time don't bet/30% of the time bet 3/4 pot/50% bet the full pot
Your opponent calls -N/A- /You lose 120 BB /You lose 300
Your opponent folds -N/A- /You win 180 BB /You win 300
Your opponent bets- You /check/fold = 0 N/A N/A
NET RESULT YOU WIN : 60 BB


Let’s also remember that sometimes we will improve, and sometimes our opponent will fold on the turn. And that’s just when we don’t connect with the flop. When we do connect, and we’ve mixed in our continuation bets effectively, we should be able to net enough because we’ve kept our opponents off balance and guessing. One of the primary keys to effective continuation betting is BALANCE. When you achieve effective balance, you should actually become ambivalent as to whether your continuation bet is called or not. For if it is called and you missed, you’re still achieving the same goal. So the next time you do connect with a big hand on the flop and bet, your opponents have to guess, is he just continuation betting again, or does he really have a hand?
While it is true that a lot of online opponents don’t pay particular attention because they’re watching T.V. or they’re playing multiple tables at the same time, an effective balancing strategy doesn’t care. We’re not concerned necessarily that they are always paying attention, but that we vary our bets in order to provide us the best possible odds considering the given flop and hole cards that we hold.
Keep in mind also that 70% of flops are missed by our opponents. This is one of the primary reasons that continuation bets are so effective. If your opponent doesn’t hold a pocket pair, or have a very small pocket pair, they may not be able to continue if you apply the correct amount of pressure.

jesus christ give lachlan a fucking star plz.

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On September 06 2008 17:36 HeRoS)eNGagE wrote: dont listen to nite

Why not?

The rules are aimed at newbies at low stakes tables. They are not likely to pick up on this pattern and the rules make sure you avoid situations where it's more likely you'll get floated.

You WILL get floated if the board is low and you opponent has an overcard.
You WILL get floated if there's a paired board bcoz they don't believe you have trips.
etc.

So, can you elaborate please why the rules are bad in your opinion?

Answer is pretty easy :

C-bet when u win the pot often enough to make a c-bet profitable
means c-bet vs players who fold flops often.

there's no such thing as cbet in my world, i ALWAYS have the best hand son =P