overpair/set dilema

i can never get away with from these two type of hands. and these are RERAISED pots im talking about.

situation 1: flop comes rags. I have an overpair (jj-qq), im getting the money in cause i put him on tp or some fd or sd. he ends up with a higher over pair.

situation 2: flop comes rags. I have an overpair (aa-kk), im getting the money in cause i put him on a lower overpair or tp. he ends up with a set.

how do you play these hands? if you reraise he shoves if he has a lower overpair or a set. how can you identify his hand and get away from it? i thought it was stats but this fucking 9/8 guy raised utg with 88.board came k84o and i had aces, i put him on ak qq/jj reraised and he shoved.

these 2 situations are where i lose the huge majority of my money.

Situation 1: Villan is 47/18
Submitted by : angryfishes

PokerStars Game #20186733168: Hold'em No Limit ($0.25/$0.50) - 2008/09/06 6:18:50 ET
Table 'Iva II' 6-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: axly87 ($130.65 in chips)
Seat 2: Hero ($74.80 in chips)
Seat 3: XlucignoloX ($12.95 in chips)
Seat 5: nietzsche69 ($44.75 in chips)
Seat 6: Chusquero ($70.85 in chips)
Lolek999 will be allowed to play after the button
nietzsche69: posts small blind $0.25
Chusquero: posts big blind $0.50

Holecards(Odds)
Dealt to Hero
axly87: raises $1 to $1.50
Hero : raises $4 to $5.50
XlucignoloX: folds
nietzsche69: folds
Chusquero: folds
axly87: calls $4

Flop(Odds) (Pot : $11.75)

   
axly87: checks
Hero : bets $7
axly87: calls $7

Turn(Odds) (Pot : $25.75)

   
axly87: checks
Hero : bets $15
axly87: calls $15

River (Pot : $55.75)

   
axly87: bets $42.50
Hero : calls $42.50

Showdown
axly87: shows (two pair, Queens and Eights)
Hero : mucks hand
axly87 collected $138.75 from pot

Summary
Total pot $140.75 | Rake $2
Board  
Seat 1: axly87 showed and won ($138.75) with two pair, Queens and Eights
Seat 2: Hero mucked
Seat 3: XlucignoloX (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: nietzsche69 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 6: Chusquero (big blind) folded before Flop

PokerStars Game #19866147558: Hold'em No Limit ($0.10/$0.25) - 2008/08/24 - 15:34:27 (ET)
Table 'Siegena V' 6-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: tripledazed ($27 in chips)
Seat 2: ImplodeOddz ($23.45 in chips)
Seat 3: Efficient C ($5.35 in chips)
Seat 4: OhSnApZs ($22.85 in chips)
Seat 5: Hero ($37.40 in chips)
Seat 6: noonsiuc ($26.35 in chips)
Hero : posts small blind $0.10
noonsiuc: posts big blind $0.25

Holecards(Odds)
Dealt to Hero
tripledazed: folds
ImplodeOddz: folds
Efficient C: folds
OhSnApZs: raises $0.50 to $0.75
tripledazed said, "can't even win a freeroll on the turn :/"
Hero : raises $1.50 to $2.25
noonsiuc: calls $2
OhSnApZs: calls $1.50

Flop(Odds) (Pot : $6.75)

   
Hero : bets $5
noonsiuc: folds
OhSnApZs: calls $5

Turn(Odds) (Pot : $16.75)

   
Hero : bets $16
OhSnApZs: calls $15.60 and is all-in
Uncalled bet ($0.40) returned to Hero

River (Pot : $47.95)

   

Showdown
Hero : shows (a pair of Kings)
OhSnApZs: shows (three of a kind, Nines)
OhSnApZs collected $45.60 from pot

Summary
Total pot $47.95 | Rake $2.35
Board  
Seat 1: tripledazed folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: ImplodeOddz folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: Efficient C folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: OhSnApZs (button) showed and won ($45.60) with three of a kind, Nines
Seat 5: Hero (small blind) showed and lost with a pair of Kings
Seat 6: noonsiuc (big blind) folded on the Flop

hand 2: your standard 3bet vs a .75 open should be more like 3-3.25
As for postflop i dont think you can let that go. If you 3bet properly you know setmining vs you isnt very profitable so you dont need to worry so much about this

thats great advice thanks

is there a way to get away from those hands post flop or is the money going to go in everytime regardless

hand 1: youre pretty deep, think about whether this villain is really loose enough when he raised UTG and 150BB deep for your JJ to still have massive pair value over 3 streets

you said "tp or some fd or sd". seriously there is no FD and you have straights blocked
unless he has severe stationy tendencies i prob check turn then bet riv big if checked to(never expecting him to check better)
i have no idea how you called the river, IMO that bet should turn his QQ into a bluff

Need more info on villain to say whether its better to just flat PF or not

On September 06 2008 05:26 angryfishes wrote: thats great advice thanks is there a way to get away from those hands post flop or is the money going to go in everytime regardless

You need some kind of mega read to fold hand 2(and it would only ever be the other guy you could fold to)

fact is the 3bet size+the other caller+his position gives SnApZs a massive range, and he can have JQdd etc(the jack isnt the flush suit) so you played it fine.

In general:
Try not to define your hand with a 3bet when you cant make it big enough to deny worse hands odds, or at least be aware that your hand is defined. Thats why it sucks when someone minraises and you have a monster, or the whole table limps and you just know they will call your raise with PPs

Think about the range you look like youre repping and be realistic about what you believe is calling you

hand 1: Preflop is good, postflop is a fold on the river
hand 2: Preflop is bad (raise to $3,50-$3,75), postflop is fine after that

check turn for pot control and call pretty much any bet within pot on river for hand 1
hand 2 is good/standard

-pooruser