[PLO100]2nd nut straight /w redraw multiway

Submitted by : TianYuan

PokerStars Game #18810431837: Omaha Pot Limit ($0.50/$1.00) - 2008/07/14 - 07:42:21 (ET)
Table 'Demiddelaer' 6-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: shoken ($80.45 in chips)
Seat 2: TianYuan ($109.55 in chips)
Seat 3: TIGER11 ($96 in chips)
Seat 4: De Lune ($88.50 in chips)
Seat 5: radek0444 ($209.50 in chips)
Seat 6: De Presenter ($67.20 in chips)
De Lune: posts small blind $0.50
radek0444: posts big blind $1

Holecards(Odds)
Dealt to TianYuan
De Presenter: calls $1
shoken: raises $3.50 to $4.50
TianYuan : calls $4.50
TIGER11: calls $4.50
De Lune: folds
radek0444: calls $3.50
De Presenter: calls $3.50

Flop(Odds) (Pot : $23.00)

   
radek0444: checks
De Presenter: checks
shoken: checks
TianYuan : checks
TIGER11: checks

Turn(Odds) (Pot : $23.00)

   
radek0444: bets $21.85
De Presenter: folds
De Presenter is sitting out
shoken: calls $21.85
De Presenter leaves the table
TianYuan : folds
TIGER11: raises $69.65 to $91.50 and is all-in
radek0444: calls $69.65
shoken: calls $54.10 and is all-in

River (Pot : $266.40)

   

Showdown
radek0444: shows (a straight, Nine to King)
TIGER11: shows (a straight, Nine to King)
radek0444 collected $15.55 from side pot
TIGER11 collected $15.55 from side pot
shoken: shows (a flush, Ace high)
shoken collected $247.85 from main pot

Summary
Total pot $281.95 Main pot $247.85. Side pot $31.10. | Rake $3
Board  
Seat 1: shoken showed and won ($247.85) with a flush, Ace high
Seat 2: TianYuan folded on the Turn
Seat 3: TIGER11 (button) showed and won ($15.55) with a straight, Nine to King
Seat 4: De Lune (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 5: radek0444 (big blind) showed and won ($15.55) with a straight, Nine to King
Seat 6: De Presenter folded on the Turn
Loller

if he folds i either call/call or shove depending on how much he is bare QQ bluffing here and how often he folds sets on the turn.

What does the shove accomplish? Forgive me if I'm being stupid, and maybe it's an image thing (ie I'm just learning omaha and would say I have a pretty nitty image at least preflop unlike, I'm assuming, yourself), but in a 4 way pot when he pots into the field and gets shoved on, wouldn't he have to be a big station to call with a set?

Does (should) he even bet a set on the turn into this many people (I suppose /w a flushdraw it'd be ok)? I guess it's almost a semi-bluff since he can fold out bottom end of the straight..?

I'm still very new to omaha and so don't have a great idea of how aggressively/bluffy the games play (but they seem somewhat passive at this level) or the exact value of my hands in certain spots.

I rarely expect to have the best hand here 5 handed on the turn, even though we do have blockers to the nut straight. I expect radek showing up w/ nut straight here a lot, and the call by shoken indicates a set / A high flush draw here a lot (it would have been best not to post your action and results...). I feel this is one of those marginally ahead / huge dog situations, and as such you can lower your variance by folding.

Yes that's exactly why I folded when Shoken called, I posted the action/results because my question was more about what to do if he DOESN'T call.

oh, okay... I misunderstood.

if shoken folds, then it's tough... I think a call (as opposed to a shove) in this spot is correct. by calling, we are basically letting our opponents "know" that we don't have JQ... this gives our opponents the opportunity to bluff a blank river. if tiger shoves turn after our call, I think we can call and expect our flush to be live a decent percent of the time.

Ya with the caller its a fairly easy fold. Without the caller I would call and evaluate on the river. I would also three bet that hand preflop some percentage of the time.

someone bets pot in first position into 4 ppl in a drawy board, that's very strong. When one of the players calls you dont know if you're ahead in drawing or in the actual hand and you have ppl behind. By playing against one player you know you're ahead at least in of the 2 ways (obv you want to be ahead in the actual hand). If noone calls I shove, you have 2 blockers for the nuts and 3 for the nut FD and you expect to be called by a strong combo draw like 99AQhh and in case you are behind, you have some outs (Q and hearts)

or in case he's a big donk you stack off a set or are in good shape against same hand

On July 15 2008 09:18 TianYuan wrote: What does the shove accomplish? Forgive me if I'm being stupid, and maybe it's an image thing (ie I'm just learning omaha and would say I have a pretty nitty image at least preflop unlike, I'm assuming, yourself), but in a 4 way pot when he pots into the field and gets shoved on, wouldn't he have to be a big station to call with a set? Does (should) he even bet a set on the turn into this many people (I suppose /w a flushdraw it'd be ok)? I guess it's almost a semi-bluff since he can fold out bottom end of the straight..? I'm still very new to omaha and so don't have a great idea of how aggressively/bluffy the games play (but they seem somewhat passive at this level) or the exact value of my hands in certain spots.

If hes aggressive he bets turn here a ton w/ heart/gutter/2p/sets, which have redraws to better hands just trying to rep QJ and take down the pot. puts us in a weird spot on the river where he bluffs sometimes, gets there and shoves sometimes, and c/f sometimes so I just shove turn.

Makes sense ty.