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traxamillion   United States. Nov 21 2015 20:03. Posts 10468 | | |
If you call turn; what is ur action on 8h river after villain bets 150 |
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goose58   United States. Nov 21 2015 20:38. Posts 871 | | |
I don't have a ton of live experience, but the older guys don't seem to bluff(specifically, raise or put a lot of money in the pot) as much as the younger ones. I think you should give him respect for a hand here until he proves that you shouldn't. Flop might even be a fold(I do think his range is value heavy so we can exploit him with a fold), although a call is of course standard. I feel the turn is a fold with your current reads..
I think you should wait for a clearer read and idea of his ranges to put a lot of money in the pot with him, especially because these games are soft and you can find better spots than calling down on this board vs a classic nit. If he's raising the flop as a bluff, what hands is he doing it with? Possibly some overcards, an underpair to the board, or hands like A4s or 76s if those are even in his BB calling range vs CO. If he bluffed the flop with overcards and a backdoor draw for example, there is a good chance he hit this turn or river..
Of course I could be way off base here, and hopefully some strong live players chime in.. |
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darkestfog   United States. Nov 27 2015 22:49. Posts 3 | | |
Preflop: Why are you raising? To take down the blinds? To get it heads up in position? To bloat the pot with an IO hand? 8$ only accomplishes the third because live villains will call that with any hand they feel like playing and BB will defend with ATC pretty much if he's closing the action. Villains see 8$, not 4BB!!
Anyway, I like the choice to raise preflop but sizing along the lines of $15 is far better for live low stakes so that you have some fold equity OTF, and you'll get it heads up or take down the blinds pretty often. Tiny preflop raise sizing is esp bad with the brutal drop you have to deal with.
Shockingly you get to the flop heads up...
Flop: bet at least pot here. He's calling $15 with the same hands he's calling $8 with. This man didn't come to the casino to fold TPWK to one bet even if he's an asian nit.
His c/r is strange. The fact that the pot is so small makes this less strong than usual though. Regardless I expect him to have at least a 9 though. That sizing on this dry board could mean he's trying to "see where he's at" but honestly he could have 3s or even slowplayed overpairs too. I think calling and reevaluating turn is fine here. I have to think your puny $8 bet has some frequency of making him spew off, by the way.
Turn: when he bombs the turn like this you can pretty comfortably fold because hands weaker than 9A don't do this due to the dryness of the board, unless he's randomly spewing off but I don't see live Vs go crazy in situations like these very often, even taking into account the fact that you bet ice cubes preflop and on the flop.
To break this down, we improve only 10% of the time on the river (and who knows if an A is good), and we are getting less than 2:1 on this call and might have to check/fold the river if he bets again. So we need him to be on a random bluff 23% of the time at a _bare_ minimum to make this call (probably more like 30% taking into account everything else) and there's no way he's bluffing (or somehow overplaying a worse hand for value) that often here.
This isn't a hero fold, it's a snap fold. Spots like these aren't where you make money at these stakes. If it went check/check on the turn I would value bet almost any river, by the way. |
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PoorUser   United States. Nov 27 2015 23:31. Posts 7471 | | |
fold w reads given and bet sizing. prob call a smaller turn brl and then fold riv vs random old guy live |
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traxamillion   United States. Nov 28 2015 06:40. Posts 10468 | | |
nice thanks, yea that is what i did, folded face up after his turn bet. Hopefully induce a show. He slammed down 62dd outa nowhere! I swear he had been SO TIGHT for hours |
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| Last edit: 28/11/2015 06:40 |
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traxamillion   United States. Nov 28 2015 06:51. Posts 10468 | | |
yea bro darkest I know I probably have among the higher winrates in these small live games around here. I know the basics and I think towards the bottom of my OP i explain fairly well why it isn't necessarily just a snapfold despite the large bet (my inclusion that villain is an live old player skews everyone to fold as it did me at the time - and that is kind of the point). |
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darkestfog   United States. Nov 28 2015 14:58. Posts 3 | | |
Same here, I've been playing 40+ hours per week at live 1/2 and 2/5 with solid results for 8 months or so. You should know by now that his spew here is the exception, not the rule. He's definitely not doing this the ~20-30% of the time that you need to continue in the hand. Playing correctly means you fold incorrectly some of the time.
Again though I think the fact that you basically scraped some lint out of your pocket and put it on the table for your preflop and flop bets contributed to his spewage here. |
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DooMeR   United States. Nov 29 2015 23:50. Posts 8547 | | |
| On November 27 2015 22:31 PoorUser wrote:
fold w reads given and bet sizing. prob call a smaller turn brl and then fold riv vs random old guy live |
I agree with RichUser. FoldUser is usually right about these things <3 |
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I just saved a bunch of money on my car insurance, by running away from the scene of an accident. | |
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Spitfiree   Bulgaria. Nov 30 2015 20:14. Posts 9634 | | |
| On November 27 2015 21:49 darkestfog wrote:
Preflop: Why are you raising? To take down the blinds? To get it heads up in position? To bloat the pot with an IO hand? . |
please.
I call turn and most likely fold river, we need the fish to overplay or spew somewhat to call the turn, which he surely does and fishes are too scared to go 3barrel so
edit: just saw your 62s post, yeah fishes tend to spew on paired boards cuz they suck and think its easy to rep trips and that having trips necessarily means you've got the nuts etc. |
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| Last edit: 30/11/2015 23:08 |
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after seeing the results, i just gona summarize what i took from the hand.
flop is an auto call of course.
turn: this guy is literally repping a 3 from the looks of it (smooth call BB special) and he has a lot more 3 in his range than you do and of course he realizes this and decides to take advantage of it
(Possible?) Tells:
i think the biggest thing in this hand was the bet sizing. he bet almost instantly, which means it was predetermined on flop he was gona fire any turn, this is usually a sign of bluffing. also he bet more than pot which means he wants you to fold or scaring you away.. these are two tells i noticed in this hand but havent validated how accurate it is yet because im not sure how much % they play this same way with a 3 in their hand or if they would bet something else like 40 on the turn.
All in all you only lost 32 dollars this hand, and although its not a huge lost, i am still very sad to see us lose this hand because i am always trying to maximize profit and win every hand and it seems like we got exploited this hand.
Possible solution to prevent this from happening again in the future...
vs this particular opponent i would say you need to adjust your bet sizing, as all your bet should be player dependent and not linear or systematic. In this case, i would NOT like to see a check raise from a tight player or any playing back, therefore I would be betting something that will get us more respect like 12 dollars and just play the hand straightforward for value not trying to induce any bluffs with bets like $8 even though it helps balance your air range for cheap. If it were a fish though im all for your 8 dollar bet bro and induce away.
and if he check raises you after your 12 dollar bet and call i can fold more comfortably on turn in a sense...
You say hes an old azn nit.
if this were a game and all the fish are level 1 newbs, i would say this guy is like a lvl 2 or 3 shaman.
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thewh00sel   United States. Dec 03 2015 18:44. Posts 2734 | | |
First rule of poker is:
Never fold a good hand face up.
The second rule of poker is:
Never fold a good hand face up.
Worse than talking strategy at the table |
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A government is the most dangerous threat to man’s rights: it holds a legal monopoly on the use of physical force against legally disarmed victims. - Ayn Rand | Last edit: 03/12/2015 18:45 |
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traxamillion   United States. Dec 04 2015 01:15. Posts 10468 | | |
Agreed, table was about to break tho and doubt I see him again. Wanted to see his hand and it worked out. Just proved how hard I got owned though |
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traxamillion   United States. Dec 04 2015 01:20. Posts 10468 | | |
Agree with ur post johnny; positive the guy isn't thinking about ranges and what he reps. May not have even spoke english. I think he just looked at positions and betsizing, decided I was weak/without 3 and went ham. I have the best calling hand so fk it should just call with at least this; he seemed ready to fire River and I just didn't wanna call that bomb. |
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