[100-200nl]Generic barreling spot vs regs

I think applies from 50nl-400nl, just wanted to confirm some thinking. Leans towards low history, anon table style stuff.
100-150bb, 6-4 handed.
Villain is 'standard tag reg', with little history. Nothing specific as it isn't super important.
Our image is going to be similar, we look reggy, etc. Maybe active, maybe not that much.
Table dynamics still forming. You know what I mean. This is not an uncommon scenario.


Raise J9o or Q9o in CO. Villain calls bu.
HU to the flop:
T54tt. Hero decides to cbet this time. Villain calls.
Turn is an offsuit broadway. Hero decides to bet 3/4 this time. Villain calls.
River is a suited non-pairing broadway, completing the flush draw.

Hero shoves?


Note our hand really doesn't matter, but we have something with no showdown value on the river.
Depending on stacks, we have 1.4-2.5x pot on the river.
I know lots of things affect the decision, such as Ax being arguably better turn/river for continuing aggression than Jx (...hmm..maybe not actually?).

I'm asking because I feel the standard of a lot of regs (myself included) is to giveup river for various valid reasons, none of which need to be repeated to anyone who plays low-mid regularly. However, villain's range is still one pair, two pair, and discounted flushes, weighted heavily towards one pair or worse. And big bets are scary.
Consider what you do here with 54hh, T8s, A9s, against a guy you aren't even positive is not a fish.



Cheers,
semp

Example boards:
1:T54-A-K, 2:J63-A-K, 3:T74-Q-K, 4: T54-J-K

1 and 2 are sorta ideal for what I'm talking about.
4 is pretty terrible as lots of his flop calling range improve. But still, he can basically only call with JT, KT, KJfloat, all of which some guys these days 3bet bluff with.


Doing this against clear fish with wider ranges may also be interesting. I'll might bring it up later on in the thread.
I think a larger proportion of fish in most anon sites' playerpools (vs regs) lean towards folding here, but it's very fish dependent. Wider ranges means more profit from barreling, on all streets, but we should watch out for random Ax.

fuck that don't bluff fish unless you actually saw him make a laydown of some sort...most fish are extremely sticky and can randomly decide to hero call..as you probably already know...also less predictable (ie something bad happens to them on another table and they just tilt call off their stack in the aforementioned situations)

and this whole thing is assuming we are 100bb deep correct? then a river shove would be a slight overbet. Maybe bet turn bigger so river is less of overbet/we win more money off our river bluffs as well.


I think if game was playing tighter than normal/generally then i would be more inclined to go ahead and pot/pot/ob jam river

overall i don't mind it as long as we are going to be playing with each other a lot in the future...actually that's another reason why i hate bluffing fish...if you get called you can't really use the information to your advantage in the future...he just leaves with your money and you'll likely never play with him again or very few chances in the future...and it prob doesn't even matter since fish will prob forget about this as well.

in my mind, yomer is becoming legendary at not reading posts.

(dude, it even says 'reg' in the thread title. all of your post its now useless because it was built on a false foundation. sadface what a waste )

on topic, yes, do it unless you have a reason not to.

Its a matter of range on river, vs calling range to a 1.4x pot bet.
It needs to work ~60% of the time or more, 140%ofPot / (100ofPot + 140%ofPot) = 58%
He shouldn't have many flushes in his range, cause they raise flop or fold turn. Sets should have raised out on flop or turn. Which leaves a bunch of AT, KT, QT, JT, T9 'standard' core of his range on river. Alot of which will be 2 pairs by river. but hey, you are more likely to have the nuts than he is, I think you can get him to fold over 60% of his turn peel range. Regs are conditioned by 1000's of similar hands to fold to these overbets.

On March 19 2012 20:50 Silver_nz wrote: in my mind, yomer is becoming legendary at not reading posts. (dude, it even says 'reg' in the thread title. all of your post its now useless because it was built on a false foundation. sadface what a waste )

Lol u should re read op before flaming like that. Coz u now look idiotic.H

Silver's reply is basically an approximation of the math behind my intuition. That bit about regs being conditioned is what I'm trying to point out with the thread.

Any other thoughts?

I know with these kinds of threads, lots of people are gonna be on the waffling "ehh I guess it's alright sometimes in theory but I'll never do this ingame and as a result won't reply for fear of getting flamed". It all helps though.

edit: I suppose what wobbly means is I did specify our rough psr on the river and some other things you might not be sure about.

On March 19 2012 20:50 Silver_nz wrote: in my mind, yomer is becoming legendary at not reading posts. (dude, it even says 'reg' in the thread title. all of your post its now useless because it was built on a false foundation. sadface what a waste )

hey this time i'm not failing hard...although i do indeed post either not sober or tired often which is a poor excuse but an excuse nonetheless

he mentioned in his post about bluffing fish... which is why i touched on the subject.

honestly the barreling thing is just mostly a stylistic thing how you want to build your image/range vs different opponents or in general so in turn gives us a more advantageous position in future spots.

Let's expand on the question.


What if we are the reg who has called flop, turn and now faces the river shove.
What do you call with? And I assume you play tight before having a reason to do otherwise?

rofl cosmo gj
SemPeR your idea is ok yet i dont see how it is profitable vs some1 you don't even know basic lines about...They will have flushes much more often here. Also i remember myself calling such a questionable OOP overbets with like 77 on xTxxK boards