1/2 live - stack off?

Probably a simple pot odds question but nonetheless:

Standard live 1/2 table of donks, nothing noteworthy.

SB has $700
BB (Hero) has $300
UTG has $200

Dealt
9 players limp
SB raises to $15
Almost everyone calls

Flop:
SB bets $35
I call $35 (??)
UTG shoves allin
Everyone folds to SB
SB shoves allin
I (??)

This is normally an auto-ship for me but after 2 reships I figure I'm only playing for the draws and that I was barely getting 2.5:1 effective stacks or so. I suck at math and couldnt figure out what my EQ was.

Yes you have odds as a bare flush draw long as nobody has the NFD which is pretty unlikely. Add to that the gutshot and every now and then a pair is good and I snap call this.

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

1,017,681 games 0.043 secs 23,666,999 games/sec

Board: 8d 9d Ts
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 33.750% 33.47% 00.28% 340652 2820.00 { KdQd }

Hand 1: 19.258% 18.77% 00.49% 191038 4952.00 { 88+, AdJd, AdTd }

Hand 2: 46.991% 46.52% 00.47% 473399 4820.00 { TT-88, AdJd, AdTd, QJs, J7s, 76s, QJo, 76o }

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You have 33% equity assuming sb can call the shove with JJ+

And doesn't raise sb with 76o and 76s.

Raises A10s and AJs

Which means you call because you only need ~2:1

I might be doing this wrong...

But like playing around with pokerstove, you never have bad equity against even the nittiest ranges here...

Shove over that stupid cbet and see what happens. No reason to be in a situation where you are calling it off when you could be shipping it in, and if you hit the turn it's not exactly disguised. Don't be so passive.

I'd say not shipping over that cbet is a pretty huge ev mistake when one compares all the different possible situations. A really big mistake.

Tensai's range is probably a good estimate and pretty instructive - I'd have leaned closer to a fold with this action, but it looks like a close call. Still, you really shouldn't be the one playing guessing games here.

i would just jam flop myself, the amount of dead money on the flop is ridicilous

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On February 27 2012 00:23 TalentedTom wrote: i would just jam flop myself, the amount of dead money on the flop is ridicilous

yep there's always a non-zero % chance both idiots can fold in this hand. that makes it insanely +ev with a hand as strong as this

On February 27 2012 02:16 Rapoza wrote: jamming flop is the easiest play but i am calling all the way down: ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1- near 0 FE from sb vs at best 50/50 spot 2- dont want to scare worse draws out, also with so many ppl in the pot chances are someone got the str8 already. 3- OP said they are LIVE donks, doubt SB is going to fold JJ+ even on scary turn/rivers so its ok to not put our money in as long as we can. 4- They might do other mistakes(like slowplaying or mini betting) that could cost you less money when you miss, but are hardly doing any if you push flop. Also, keeping other dominated draws in nets a huge pot when it hits.

this is wrong. if they are folding as often as you say and calling with weakish 1 pair hands as often as you say then this is even more of a jam...the overlay in the pot easily justifies shipping it in. You do realise we win about ~$100 or so in free money if the other guys fold. And that's amazing in a 1/2 game ;o.

I would expect a shove over the c bet to net higher profits long term than a call vs just about any opponents. Additionally this is a LIVE game...if the table sees you jamming flop with a draw they are gonna think you are batshit insane and expect everyone to play scared/stationy/terrible against you from this hand out.

Aye. The only reason I didnt shove flop was because I convinced myself he was allowing me to play perfectly by betting so small. From now on I will play these types of hands much more aggressively regardless of action.

^ I think like this too...

The other line is definitely interesting and I will probably consider it more often

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