200NL QQ 150bb deep against tight player

Messiah has been here for a couple orbits, 33/21 in 40 hands, nothing major. He had recently chased the nut FD by check calling flop and bluffing OOP on a whiffed river, nothing major.
Spazz is unknown short stack idiot

villain in this hand is deep with me at 150bbs or so. He is 23/7/4.5 over 100 hands.

thoughts
I was a bit swamped by tables and was timing out left and right. My plan was to put in a 4 bet to see where I'm at compared to the deep villain. I figured any further action preflop from anyone but the short stack and I'm almost always dominated or flipping

What I failed to do was consider the short stack's stack size which is a huge huge mistake since well, its important.

My question is, how should I proceed if
a.) original raiser shoves and action folds around
b.) original raiser shoves, deep stack folds, short stack calls (actually this is stupid, so much overlay and for not even 100bbs, I dont see myself folding QQ)
c.) original raiser folds, deep stack shoves
d.) original raiser folds, deep stack flats, short stack flats
e.) original raiser folds, deep stack flats, short stack shoves

Option E later became reality and I was forced to fold. I realize this is a huge huge mistake leaving the option for deep stack to reshove me if I call the small stacks shove. But yah, fucked up hand or I fucked it up harder, but I felt calling QQ for set odds is not an option here
Submitted by : gawdawaful

POKERSTARS GAME #13939525239: HOLD'EM NO LIMIT ($1/$2) - 2007/12/18 - 09:25:44 (ET)
Table 'Garumna' 6-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: Hero ($405.35 in chips)
Seat 2: TheChancelor ($126.85 in chips)
Seat 3: GUGAcarvalho ($31.30 in chips)
Seat 4: Messiah2060 ($183.25 in chips)
Seat 5: eripio ($303.55 in chips)
Seat 6: spazztic1970 ($123.65 in chips)
spazztic1970: posts small blind $1
Hero : posts big blind $2

Holecards
Dealt to Hero
TheChancelor: folds
GUGAcarvalho: folds
Messiah2060: raises $4 to $6
eripio: raises $14 to $20
spazztic1970: calls $19
TheChancelor leaves the table
Hero : raises $42 to $62

Hm.. if original raiser goes allin you probably have to fold, same with the deepstacked dude. 2bet, 3bet and your 4bet is so ridiculously strong here. If he shoves he can have only 1 of 2 hands.

If shortstack shoves and the other guys folded it's an obvious call.

this was actually what happened, I should probably edit original post

original raiser folds
deepstack times and calls
short stack shoves, I can call or shove

I'm uncertain if the 4 bet was a good idea preflop given how tight the deep stack's preflop raise is

Shitty spot =[. I have no idea wether I would shove or fold here.. when he times and just calls I'm inclined to believe that he might have KK/AA here and wants to slowplay it. I think you gotta know the player better for that I guess. I think both are fine because you have massive overlay from the fish who probably has 99/TT here.

Also, what do you think about the 4 bet amount? I wanted to 4 bet to an amount where I'm not committed against the 150bb stack basically. Is this too much/too little or fine?

Also, is there any merits for playing this for set value (and in all likelihood, 4 way pot?)

On December 18 2007 15:39 gawdawaful wrote: Also, what do you think about the 4 bet amount? I wanted to 4 bet to an amount where I'm not committed against the 150bb stack basically. Is this too much/too little or fine? Also, is there any merits for playing this for set value (and in all likelihood, 4 way pot?)

I think you are missing the part where your post-flop actions are dictated by your pre-flop decisions. You should know exactly what to do once you see the flop before you shove 1/3 of your stack into the middle. Yes you can fold PF to a push, but on flop you are not going to have any additional information to allow you to fold an overpair. So decide now where you stand against his range.

On December 18 2007 15:39 gawdawaful wrote: Also, what do you think about the 4 bet amount? I wanted to 4 bet to an amount where I'm not committed against the 150bb stack basically. Is this too much/too little or fine? Also, is there any merits for playing this for set value (and in all likelihood, 4 way pot?)

I don't like a 4bet here. You're essentially turning your hand into a bluff.

I can definitely see playing this for set value though. Though I'm not a big fan of it. I probably just fold. QQ is strong and all but I don't like playing my hands in such a way that I require things to go right unless I have reason to believe that things are actually going to go that way. I don't like having to sit there and pray that my opponents are about to do something stupid with TT or JJ. I want to know that before I make a play assuming that it's going to work out. Unless I have reason to believe that it's the case, I just find these plays end up going horribly wrong.

That being said, I like just folding.

4betting here is soooooooooo bad against a 3bettor w/ 7 pfr. i flat here. it sucks but i think it is still profitable. folding is fine as well.

Submitted by : YoMeR

Hand #48567750-388 at Steiner (No Limit Hold'em)
Started at 03/Dec/07 22:21:01
onegoodplayer is at seat 0 with $933.78
odecat is at seat 1 with $237.80
slickstrick is at seat 2 with $139.60
LessonsRExtra is at seat 3 with $241.95
vyk07 is at seat 4 with $200
rekamniar is at seat 5 with $187.80
gmnhann is at seat 6 with $76.75
ChipLeider is at seat 7 with $189.50
BumBullBee is at seat 8 with $247.90
jizz_king is at seat 9 with $136.85
The button is at seat 9
onegoodplayer posts the small blind of $1
odecat posts the big blind of $2

Holecards(Odds)
onegoodplayer :
odecat: -- --
slickstrick: -- --
LessonsRExtra: -- --
vyk07: -- --
rekamniar: -- --
gmnhann: -- --
ChipLeider: -- --
BumBullBee: -- --
jizz_king: -- --

slickstrick folds
LessonsRExtra folds
vyk07 folds
rekamniar folds
gmnhann raises to $7
ChipLeider re-raises to $15
BumBullBee folds
jizz_king folds
onegoodplayer calls
odecat folds
gmnhann calls

Flop(Odds) (Pot : $16)

   
onegoodplayer checks
gmnhann bets $20
ChipLeider raises to $40
onegoodplayer folds
gmnhann goes
all-in for $61.75
ChipLeider calls

Turn(Odds) (Pot : $76.00)

   
(no action in this round)

River (Pot : $76.00)

   
(no action in this round)

Showdown
gmnhann shows
gmnhann has : a pair of jacks
ChipLeider shows
ChipLeider has : three aces

Summary
$3 is raked from a pot of $170.50
$.50 jackpot contribution is raked
ChipLeider wins $167 with three aces

This is what happened:

big stack time banks and calls, small stack shoves, I pitch for 60 more, big stack calls, AKX on flop, big stack shows AK for top two, small stack shows 88.

My thoughts was that the big stack is almost always on aces and kings considering the line I took, but obviously I was wrong and took the worse possible line for this situation. Just wanted some feed back