this is the first time i have ever seen him flat a 4bet like that. he usualy just comes over the top allin. 200$ left 180$ in the pot.

bet 30-40

c/f, guys a maniac

i take it that he is not folding anything here so youre likely behind

and this is why i never 5 bet

On August 22 2012 11:34 HeRoS)eNGagE wrote: and this is why i never 5 bet

because you need to fold on a monotone board ?

lol na i just think 5 betting suck

now thing is you have to think about preflop
you have to think how your 5bet will change his postflop range (assume that he will call) if it's gonna change at all
it might be better option to flat pre if his gonna stackoff light like an idiot he is anyway to keep his wieder range

if you think that your 5bet will not affect his range then yea go for it and put as much money as you can preflop

Now this guy is the ultimate nutcase. Once he is in a pot like this he fells commited with any 2 cards, regardless if he his cards didn't connect and/or are undercards to the board. that's just how wide his range is here.

note: i should have just shoved preflop (just saw the he has called a 4bet like that before in the past)

this is a hand i played earlier this month vs him

Submitted by : the cleaner

PokerStars Hand #84446344587: Holdem No Limit ($0.50/$1.00 USD) - 2012/08/08 9:35:17 ET
Table Recha II 6-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: the clêaner ($337.06 in chips)
Seat 2: Hackeran ($628.06 in chips)
Seat 3: hizintak ($245.80 in chips)
Seat 4: BlackWdnsday ($456.20 in chips)
Seat 5: theobqaz ($1109.75 in chips)
Seat 6: jinshan0809 ($254.56 in chips)
the clêaner: posts small blind $0.50
Hackeran: posts big blind $1
the clêaner: posts the ante $0.20
Hackeran: posts the ante $0.20
hizintak: posts the ante $0.20
BlackWdnsday: posts the ante $0.20
theobqaz: posts the ante $0.20
jinshan0809: posts the ante $0.20

Holecards(Odds)
Dealt to the clêaner
hizintak: folds
BlackWdnsday: folds
theobqaz: folds
jinshan0809: raises $2.50 to $3.50
the clêaner: raises $11.50 to $15
Hackeran: folds
jinshan0809: raises $11.50 to $26.50
the clêaner: raises $61.50 to $88
jinshan0809: calls $61.50

Flop(Odds) (Pot : $177.00)

   
the clêaner: bets $91.20
jinshan0809: raises $75.16 to $166.36 and is all-in
the clêaner: calls $75.16

Turn(Odds) (Pot : $509.72)

   

River (Pot : $509.72)

   

Showdown
the clêaner: shows (high card Ace)
jinshan0809: mucks hand
the clêaner collected $508.12 from pot

Summary
Total pot $510.92 | Rake $2.80
Board  
Seat 1: the clêaner (small blind) showed and won ($508.12) with high card Ace
Seat 2: Hackeran (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 3: hizintak folded before Flop (didnt bet)
Seat 4: BlackWdnsday folded before Flop (didnt bet)
Seat 5: theobqaz folded before Flop (didnt bet)
Seat 6: jinshan0809 (button) mucked

I think you can just shove here and still make a profitt against him, that is based on the hands you have posted on him l8ly

why do you Note: should have just shoved here?

he wont call a shove ( most likely ) with his shitty hand, but he may call a 5bet and have like a psb left lol u want this action

5betting is great but prob go a little bigger. as played with this sizing i think c/f is correct

board: QcJc5c
Hand Equity Wins Ties
AhKs 34.72% 39,426 11,199
15% 65.28% 79,065 11,199

u need about 34-35% to get it in here and i'm pretty sure his range is wider than top 15%, although it would help if u could provide some stats or context for that K7 hand. like was that a random spazz from an otherwise conservative player or is he just splashing around every hand?

On August 22 2012 13:15 FrinkX wrote: why do you Note: should have just shoved here? he wont call a shove ( most likely ) with his shitty hand, but he may call a 5bet and have like a psb left lol u want this action

well when i posted the hand people suggested that i should have just shoved preflop, instead of 5betting. i defended my play saying that from what i have seen from him, he usually just 6bet shoves over our 5bet. this guy is crazy, it seems that he just randomly picks his hands to go allin preflop. he usually shows up with hands like 86o,k4s,J9,Ax anything. i have seen him shove for a 10bi stack with 87o many times. he is that crazy.

then i posted the note that i should have just shoved, cause i looked at the AK vs K7 hand from a couple of days ago and saw that i was in the same spot then, when he only flat my 5bet and i had roughly 1 potsize bet left.

i think if i shove over his preflop 4bet he will probably call about 75% and fold 25% (judging by feel).

n0rthf4ce, i like the idea to just 5bet bigger, in order to have about a 3/4 pot size bet left on the flop. i'm pretty sure he will call or shove 100% preflop if we make it bigger.

On August 22 2012 13:42 lacman730 wrote: board: QcJc5c Hand Equity Wins Ties AhKs 34.72% 39,426 11,199 15% 65.28% 79,065 11,199 u need about 34-35% to get it in here and i'm pretty sure his range is wider than top 15%, although it would help if u could provide some stats or context for that K7 hand. like was that a random spazz from an otherwise conservative player or is he just splashing around every hand?

it's not just a random spazz, it's his standard spazz. his normal way to play the hand.

post results in spoiler

im curious ;P

If he has pocketpairs here, c/call a shove might be ok...ugly flop but I would just feel committed and hope my A and T are good

it's a pretty easy c/f imo. betting is probably slightly -ev vs this guy. And if he checks flop and we improve we are going to make a lot of ev there.

On August 22 2012 19:55 patti wrote: If he has pocketpairs here, c/call a shove might be ok...ugly flop but I would just feel committed and hope my A and T are good

lol
c/call is so bad

On August 22 2012 19:55 patti wrote: If he has pocketpairs here, c/call a shove might be ok...ugly flop but I would just feel committed and hope my A and T are good

AsKh --- Equity % = 50.1501% --- Wins Hi % = 48.0955% --- Ties Hi % = 4.1093% --- Wins Hi Count = 514713 --- Ties Hi Count = 43977
100% --- Equity % = 49.8499% --- Wins Hi % = 47.7953% --- Ties Hi % = 4.1093% --- Wins Hi Count = 511500 --- Ties Hi Count = 43977


So lets not.

We actually want him to fold all his air (if he folds 23o with the 3 of clubs hes making a mistake). We want him to fold 9Thh here, we almost would prefer him to fold T8hh (actually the latter is an exaggeration, we are better off if he stacks off with that hand).

looks like the easiest check/fold ever

wtf@ppl saying easy c/f when tianyuan and i have already shown math for why this is a clearcut shove.

EDIT: Didn't see your above post, interesting. My post wasnt saying it was a clearcut shove, just that we can't check call and that even against a lot of air we prefer he folds it anyway.

results
+ Show Spoiler +