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Handnr: 935044
Submitted by : the cleaner

PokerStars Hand #73882865468: Holdem No Limit ($1/$2 USD) - 2012/01/15 8:12:01 ET
Table Lamberta II 6-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: gamblewhitme ($404 in chips)
Seat 2: RaFiTa21 ($66.15 in chips)
Seat 5: the clêaner ($397.80 in chips)
Seat 6: typemike1 ($200 in chips)
the clêaner: posts small blind $1
typemike1: posts big blind $2

Holecards
Dealt to the clêaner AhAc
gamblewhitme: folds
RaFiTa21: folds
the clêaner: raises $4 to $6
maktub83 leaves the table
bystryj joins the table at seat #3
typemike1: calls $4

Flop (Pot : $12.00)

   5s9sQh
the clêaner: bets $9
typemike1: calls $9

Turn (Pot : $30.00)

   5s9sQhTh
the clêaner: bets $26
typemike1: calls $26

River (Pot : $82.00)

   5s9sQhTh3s

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Comments

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the cleaner   Venezuela. Jan 15 2012 07:19. Posts 2961

villain 27/22/2.5
9.5pct 3bet and doesn't like to fold postflop.

bet/fold or ch/call ?

“Only after the last tree has been cut down. Only after the last river has been poisoned. Only after the last fish has been caught. Only then will you find that money cannot be eaten.” Last edit: 15/01/2012 07:22

Eluflop   Estonia. Jan 15 2012 07:41. Posts 3742

i dont think a worse hand is going to give u value here, but since turn brought heart draw as well to the straight draw, id rather ch bluff catch the river , since he needs to bet his missed shit

 Last edit: 15/01/2012 07:44

tuna333   Czech Republic. Jan 15 2012 07:55. Posts 128

this hand is really interesting - hope it will get a lot of responses

- what exactly are you betting on turn like this and is air on river?? I guess only few combos of missed hearts and you will have a ton of value hands (every straight, set, ton of flushes) - so river value bet seems bad
- and I don't like c/c too, because he has only 2.5 AF, so there is good chance he will bet only w/ better hand (and probably will not turn something like J9 into bluff)

- so for me it looks more like c/f or we could turn it into bluff and overbet, because our range is nutted and we will have a ton of value hands, which we will be playing like this
-> opinions on this??

 Last edit: 15/01/2012 07:56

Almebeast   Sweden. Jan 15 2012 08:21. Posts 780

^ overbet bluffing is ridiculous for many reasons. Villain has flushes in his range, we dont even have the As, AA is too strong to turn into a bluff etc.

I dont like ch/call either because it's hard for villain to have air at this point.

Valuebet seems best, especially if villain doesnt like folding. He can put us on missed hearts or AJ.

After all is said and done, more is said than done. 

barbieman   Sweden. Jan 15 2012 09:25. Posts 2132

he has close to 0 hearts fd in his range, maybe 76 and 87. But he's surely raising flop a certain % with them. Since he flat both flop and turn, we can discount pretty much every spade draw as well, except 76 and 87 which he might be raising flop with. He will have a couple two pairs, but a majority will be one pair type, JTs, QJ, KQ, (J9s), He's probably 3betting AQ.

I would bet small to get value from his one pair hands and call a raise if he spazz turns his weak made hand into a bluff. I don't think he'll raise with his two pairs and he hardly has any flushes what so ever in his range.


terrybunny19240   United States. Jan 15 2012 09:47. Posts 13829

plz someone at higherstakes/reputable comment cuz its blowing my mind that this isn't a clear valuebet given positions too.. info plz

 Last edit: 15/01/2012 09:48

tuna333   Czech Republic. Jan 15 2012 09:50. Posts 128


  On January 15 2012 08:21 Almebeast wrote:
^ overbet bluffing is ridiculous for many reasons. Villain has flushes in his range, we dont even have the As, AA is too strong to turn into a bluff etc.

I dont like ch/call either because it's hard for villain to have air at this point.

Valuebet seems best, especially if villain doesnt like folding. He can put us on missed hearts or AJ.


straight - 30
set - 12
flush - 27
2 pair - 30
= 99 combos

AJ - 15
missed h - 17
= 32 combos

- and even then we can have AA, KK (12 combos), AQ (12 combos) - w/ his 3bet he would raise AQ and some % of KQ pre, so if he has just Q, its KQ in best case and he can't profitably call w/ it, so I would expect him to fold - this is why I don't think value bet is good

- I think turn sizing is pretty important in river decision - if Hero would bet 20, then I like value bet on river, but this sizing narrows our range to hands, which are well connected w/ board, so we don't have many bluffs on river
- and I agree w/ barbieman - he probably has almost no flushes


NeillyJQ   United States. Jan 15 2012 10:31. Posts 8947

b/f 45-47

Just remember you need to be god damn sure about their tendencies. -Artanis11 http://www.pocketfives.com/profiles/neillyaa/ 

NeillyJQ   United States. Jan 15 2012 10:36. Posts 8947

also, just folding pre every hand and shipping aces pre will get you rb with setmining if you don't like to think for yourself!

Just remember you need to be god damn sure about their tendencies. -Artanis11 http://www.pocketfives.com/profiles/neillyaa/ 

NeillyJQ   United States. Jan 15 2012 10:38. Posts 8947

the initial "bet fold plan" seems to kinda go out the window w/ tells and timing for sure.

i'd fire 38-47 honestly. def not letting him see a free showdown w/ a bb defending hand *JQss kinda hands)

if he jams, check out his stats etc. hes usually not firing off a BI here vs you as a bluff.

Just remember you need to be god damn sure about their tendencies. -Artanis11 http://www.pocketfives.com/profiles/neillyaa/ 

LemOn[5thF]   Czech Republic. Jan 15 2012 11:37. Posts 13428

Thank god you are back Neilly

My strategy thread: http://www.pokerstrategy.com/forum/thread.php?postid=1680671#post1680671 

lebowski   Greece. Jan 15 2012 12:23. Posts 8086

betting river seems too thin to me but c/c usually sucks
Some guys are going to bluff any 2 on this river,most will snap check with a good tp hand, tough hand because it depends on villain

new shit has come to light... a-and... shit! man... 

Baalim   Mexico. Jan 15 2012 12:35. Posts 28948

its very villian depending, but unlike neilly i dont like giving my hand strenght away so easily on the river, this player might not exploit it but you will develop shitty habits, unless you balance it out betting all your bluffs flushes and aces that small which i dont like doing.


lebowski   Greece. Jan 15 2012 12:54. Posts 8086


  On January 15 2012 09:25 barbieman wrote:
he has close to 0 hearts fd in his range, maybe 76 and 87. But he's surely raising flop a certain % with them. Since he flat both flop and turn, we can discount pretty much every spade draw as well, except 76 and 87 which he might be raising flop with. He will have a couple two pairs, but a majority will be one pair type, JTs, QJ, KQ, (J9s), He's probably 3betting AQ.

I would bet small to get value from his one pair hands and call a raise if he spazz turns his weak made hand into a bluff. I don't think he'll raise with his two pairs and he hardly has any flushes what so ever in his range.


spade combo draws (eg Jxss) or pair of tens + f draw are in his range don't you think? Also flatting twice in position with even a naked f draw is a mistake some regs will do, whereas bluff shoving repping the flush vs a 3 barel is a semi rare move imo

new shit has come to light... a-and... shit! man... 

Jamie217   Canada. Jan 15 2012 14:57. Posts 4237

67~


EvilSky    Czech Republic. Jan 15 2012 15:08. Posts 8872

its not an amazing value spot but still I think AA is good enough for a vbet, around 60 will do.


the cleaner   Venezuela. Jan 15 2012 17:21. Posts 2961

ok, thanks for replies. i ch/called 52$ on the river and he had A4ss. But i think i should have bet/folded the hand that's why i posted it.

“Only after the last tree has been cut down. Only after the last river has been poisoned. Only after the last fish has been caught. Only then will you find that money cannot be eaten.”  

 


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