Opening for 11BB preflop?

Hi,
I ran into someone mixing it up w/ 11BB raises preflop. I didn't really know how to adapt to this style and found myself playing rather confused.
He seems to be doing it w/ about 50% of his preflop raises, he 3-bets a ton preflop as well. He has shown down some good hands when he opened for 11BB preflop and he almost always fired two big barrels afterwards.
My stats have him at 22/17
AF: 2.79 / 3.9 / 1.8 / 2.3
over about 500 hands. I have some more stats from NL100, but he played way different there (tight, solid, maybe somewhat weak), so I think they're useless now.

Some examples of this play, again: excuse the format (Ongame->PT -> LP turns out like that for me).
http://www.liquidpoker.net/h/163120
http://www.liquidpoker.net/h/163122
http://www.liquidpoker.net/h/163132
http://www.liquidpoker.net/h/163133
http://www.liquidpoker.net/h/163135
http://www.liquidpoker.net/h/163138
http://www.liquidpoker.net/h/163139

What are my options against this kind of play? Should I 3-bet this preflop from time to time? Should I cold-call this in position, although it's going to be hard to float, when he fires twice and big a lot.
What kind of range should I use here, assuming he's playing some top hands + SCs + some mediocre hands like Q9o in this way?

Also: Could this play actually be valid and should I employ it myself to run over the table like that?

Thanks for advice,
inde

ok, so he raises like 8% of all hands 11 bb pf, that means that it'll be about 12.5 bb in the pot when it comes around to you. If he just steals the blinds he'll invest 11 to win 1.5 or about 7.33 to 1. That can't be good and I'm pretty sure it's abuseable.

However, if he's tight and doesn't do this too often I'd just stay out of his way untill I have a monster. That's probably better.

3bet or fold pf almost always. almost never coldcall with the intention of trying to hit a flop. when you 3bet flop you're effectively committing your whole stack aipf on the hand, there is no folding anywhere after you've put in a pf 3bet so bear that in mind when selecting your range. when you find someone playing like this its potentially an extremely profitable situation for u, but u gotta leave ur other tables and focus on it. your range for pf 3betting should depend on what you think his 11bb open range is at that time. you said at the start you only saw him overbet opening pf with about 50% of his raises and showing down big hands, then don't mess with them. your 3betting range should be tight at first, AA AK KK QQ. you should carefully observe his frequency for opening 11bb and if he continues to do it for a few hands+win without showdown, u can work out hes doing it with a range of not just the top premiums (since hes statistically unlikely to be getting dealt premiums as often as hes raising 11bb) and immediately widen your pf 3bet range to include AQ, JJ, TT. the reason you don't call pf with anything is its simply not a profitable play, 11bb is too much to invest compared to stacks behind and you definitely do not have implied odds to try and flop anything, its very simply a losing play. your AQ hand is played just terribly, not only the call pf but also calling the flop when you hit an extremely lucky amazing flop to semibluffraise allin on: overcards and gutshot.

when you see that hes being a maniac and starts doing it like twice an orbit or more, or showing down 56o / Q8o like he did in your hands, you should immediately be prepared to bring the hammer down real light. 3bet pf with anything that races goot, e.g. 77 88 99 TT JJ QQ AK AQ AJ KQ. call pf with high pairs to trap intending to sometimes shove over his cbet (on drawy boards) and sometimes float it (on dry nonconnected non-dangerous boards) with the intention to call a turn push / push turn if he checks. and to balance that also call pf with hands that can hit flops like middle sooted connectors/gappers like J9s 98s with the intention of shoving over his cbet on a board that either:
- hits u in any way: any pair or draw often inc just a gutshot
- is unlikely to hit him, e.g. 553 or J72

at first glance i'd say this sort of play is not really valid because of how easily exploitable it is by doing the things i've described. however at 100nl ppl are dumb and may not work out how best to exploit it correctly + make gross gross mistakes against it, so it could very well work. remember in poker, your profit in the long run is [the total sum of mistakes your opponents make] - [the total sum of your mistakes]. so doing things to induce more mistakes from your opponents is just as important as not making mistakes yourself.

in actual fact, on a related sidenote, this is pretty much the reason i think TalentedTom is able to win extremely good money at 2/4 3/6. his loose goose play-tons-of-hands-pf style can be easily exploited by good players, and if he's to try and play the same way on a typical 10/20nl stars table that consists mainly of (relatively) smart good solid regs, they will make the proper adjustments to crush him. but luckily for our blonde-ignoring-and-going-for-her-less-attractive-friend hero, there don't exist many players at all at midstakes nl who have the necessary depth of poker theory understanding to make the correct adjustments to him, and in attempts to do so they actually wind up 'adjusting' to his preflop looseness in the worst possible way. they become frustrated by his frequent getting out of line and pounding at them every hand with junk hands on the 'small bet' streets (preflop and flop), so try to adapt by calling him down real light even on the 'big bet' streets (turn and river). in doing so they get obliterated because TT is actually only getting out of line frequently in the small pots and being much tighter and more solid+straightforward on the whole in big pots. when the big bets go in on turn and river TT will show up with the best hand and win a big pot from some frustrated donk that got tilted by his preflop ridiculousness. so what he's doing is purposely making small mistakes himself in small pots in order to get an image which induces much larger mistakes from weak players later on. these sorts of weaker players are in plentiful supply at up to 2/4 and 3/6, which are the stakes talentedtom CRUSHES for winrates that are pretty much unachievable by a straightforward solid TAG player (who will only exploit the mistakes that weaker players make but doesn't do much to induce any).

wow most of your posts are like half a line you must bottle it out then dish out the good stuff in one go

Great post Ket !
Xelin : Ket often makes very nice 3-4 paragraph posts

amazing post Ket, ty

POTW?

On March 25 2007 06:47 Ket wrote: lolz.......

FYP

i learned something in this thread

Really good post. Also, I loled... "our blonde-ignoring-and-going-for-her-less-attractive-friend hero"

ket u sexy

nice post ket.

I played a funny live game yesterday in a local poker club. It was NL $0.50/$1.00 (well it was in CZK), but the standard preflop raise was to like $15-$20. first it was just ridiculous but soon the stacks got big enough for most people, so we played a NL$100 game with stacks of $300+ and standard pf raise to $15-$20. pretty funny and profitable game. I ended up +3bi in the end, but I could have ended much more up hadnt i lost a AJ vs AT allin preflop hand for a pot worth about 4 buyins.

edit: there were players who didnt mind coldcalling raise and a reraise preflop with 3To for like 1/4th of their stacks. or people who were willing to gamble with A7o allin pf when they KNEW their opponent had AQ.

Where was that club Joe? Im studying in Podebrady right now and I could use the spare money

On March 25 2007 12:39 EvilSky wrote: Where was that club Joe? Im studying in Podebrady right now and I could use the spare money

Its in Brno, Krenova street.
Its called Honoria Poker club. Its near to the main railway station. Its not a casino though, it is a club. It looks like a normal czech pub, but there are poker tables instead of normal ones

TY

sick post ket. too bad ur still a mouse