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sniderstyle   United States. Mar 11 2011 04:25. Posts 2046
Friend of a friend asked me for some advice to become a poker pro at 50nl
Here was my response. Long so don't read.


Poker response

That's all kind of a big question but I'll break it down like this

1. You absolutely should NOT quit your current job to pursue poker

Before you get the privilege to do that you need to be a proven winner for a long period of time (1 yr) at rate that you can comfortable live on

AND

You need a years expenses cashed out in your bank

It'd be crazy to rely on poker as your sole means if income if those two conditions haven't been met

If you don't it causes far too much life stress and there is a gigantic risk of ruin.  Also it leads you to do the cardinal sin for aspiring poker pros which is to CASH OUT

You should never cash out before you hit the 100nl level. It is shooting yourself in the foot. You don't make enough money yet at these levels where it's worth it. 

It's also  important to stay within your bankroll
500$ needed 25nl
1000 for 50nl 
2500 for 100nl

These are guidelines for winning players so if you're breaking even or losing then you need more

Most poker players don't respect the variance in this game but I've seen how big of a bitch it can truly be

But that said it's also important to take shots.  Even if your bankroll doesnt satisfy the requirements 

Just don't bust your roll.  Move up.  Hopefully win. If not learn from it

It's funny the diverse strategy game background that poker has. I and my peers came from Starcraft. Many came from magic the gathering. Warcraft iii  Others from chess backgammon. And now darkfall. 

Everyone seems to think the skills they've accrued from their perspective games will help transition and excel in poker.  What's true is that most gamers are really dedicated and put in hours. That's the most important skill. Putting in time and constantly trying to improve

Those games or really anything competitive,  the best way to improve is to play people better than you.  Respect the game and respect the players. This is why taking shots are important.  Even if you lose the experience is valuable

Don't get into the mentality of getting into ego wars with other regulars. Guess what. He's not a noob and he doesn't suck. If you have any edge one him it's so miniscule that variance will dictate who wins and loses

Concentrate your focus on identifying and playing weak players and that is where your profitability comes from

Getting over the hump.  When I was first moving up to 100nl and got kicked back down everysngle time .  I just couldnt so it.   I finally got so frustrated  that I bought a subscription to cardrunners. Kinda substantial investment at the time.  This wAs bAck when Cr was in it's infancy.   That catapulted me up to 200nl in no time. But having a Cr subscription was truly valuable back then because no one had it.  Now everyone has it.

So what can you do today to get ahead of the curve?  Coaching?  

The coaching market is crazy because anybody with any tech sense and basic poker knowledge can market themselves as a coach. Because of this, the coaching market is saturated with PREDATORY coaching. Where a guy can easily get testimonials, references, former students to vouch for the coach.  I cant tell you how many times I've read a coaching scam. It happens all the time and coaching is way over priced. 

To give you an idea who coaches,  I only started coaching when I started to lose.  Losing players generally coach which makes that not the best path to stardom

If not coaching, what?

Well really what it takes to be successful in video games.  Get involved in a poker community so you know whose full of shit and who isn't. Get as many poker friends as you can. Talk and think about it all the time.  Play more than that

Never play more than 6 tables before 100nl
Never cash out
And realize it won't be easy

Having been a pro for more than 2 years, the best advice I can give you is don't ever become one. Just use it as supplemental income


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Genginho: lose today 100 dollar only because of fishs they called and had luck on river 

bigredhoss   Cook Islands. Mar 11 2011 04:47. Posts 8649

solid advice, i think if anything those br reqs might be a bit low for today's games (for most people)

Truck-Crash Life 

Highcard   Canada. Mar 11 2011 05:32. Posts 5428

Well, as much as your advice has valid points you relate it incorrectly and being that you are a marginal/barely winning player in poker over what you consider a full 2 years of hard play, sort of skews your advice a lot.

TBH I think you should just detailed exactly everything that you are. Are you decent at math, game theory, were you actually good at SC, Magic, etc.etc.?? , then detail how much actual time you spent breaking down your game after sessions, theory, HEM stats understanding, how to manipulate these stats, how many hours of play you did per week. Then detail the forms of poker you played, stakes, observations of the player fields from your eyes, how successful your notes taking was, etc.etc.

Now that you wrote all that, you can say tell your friend the most honest answer possible, which I believe is what you are trying to do? You did all of this trying to grow as a professional and failed at it. You now quit poker full time, playing more on the side.

This should give your friend a very good grasp of what it will take to barely get by as a player. He can then gauge if he thinks he can a) do it better than you b) put in more time/better time than you. If he thinks you are more intuitive, smarter, mentally focused then him, he should just quit now.

There is still a fucking ridiculous amount of money to be made in poker and at all levels/stakes there will always be the select few who will crush. It doesn't matter if they have been doing it for 4 years or just started 6 months ago. Jungleman went from zero to $5million in 1.5 years starting at 50nl after spewing for around 6months-year and there are lots strong players all in the middle doing the same thing. So, yes poker is hard but unbeatable? Should not even think to try to go pro? That is poor advice.

I have learned from poker that being at the table is not a grind, the grind is living and poker is how I pass the time 

Highcard   Canada. Mar 11 2011 05:55. Posts 5428

There is not 1 single thing that has a higher ROI per $1 than poker from the micro scale of < $10k Absolutely nothing can match the earning potential of $2k in poker when in the hands of a player that knows what he is doing. Tons of people have access to $1k-$10k but it is extremely difficult to turn that small money into anything useful unless you gamble on a startup. Yet in poker if you gave me $2K I can turn that into 5 digits ez by the end of the month. So, I believe poker is extremely valuable as long as you work hard in the right areas and strive for for perfection. It is one of the greatest ways to build liquidity and is universal.

I have learned from poker that being at the table is not a grind, the grind is living and poker is how I pass the time 

Highcard   Canada. Mar 11 2011 06:08. Posts 5428

Umm, I will give you an analogy to your ending comment, I guess that is the only reason why I bothered to comment.

Having been a pro for more than 2 years, the best advice I can give you is don't ever become one. Just use it as supplemental income

You friend is asking if you think he can drink alcohol any day of the month and be fine. You tell him you tried for 2 years to drink alcohol any day/time of the month but you turned into a mild alcoholic. Drinking on any day/time did not go well for you, so now you cut back to Weekend evenings because you can handle it better. With your experience, you tell your friend he shouldn't drink during the week and only drink on the weekend evenings.

As you can see, this advice is absurd.

I have learned from poker that being at the table is not a grind, the grind is living and poker is how I pass the time 

LemOn[5thF]   Czech Republic. Mar 11 2011 06:10. Posts 15163

I like your advice thanks

Let me just say one thing: People overestimate the impacts of quitting a job. These days everyone is switching between companies and departments and I actually saw people boasting about having 20 different positions on their CV, their trips to India and years of travelling. This is not Japan dude, and I can't see how taking a break in a career doing what they love that gives them flexibility in their life can be ever a bad thing. Life isn't as short as you think, if you think being an office drone for 40 years is not enough than fair enough.

If it doesn't work out, so what? He had a blast doing what he loves whenever he wants for a year, and he can get back to his career, refreshed. (I assume he loves playing poker and isn't just a bum trying to autopilot easy living right?)
If it does work out, well, sick life

If you scream CV GAP! Well...if you care so much about that make sure you either travel or e.g. take up volunteering for a few hours per week, so that you both get some extra experiences and show employers that you are either adventurous 'go places do stuff' person, or that you care about your community and are compassionate...and that you, well 'do stuff'.

93% Sure! Last edit: 11/03/2011 06:12

Arirang   Canada. Mar 11 2011 06:25. Posts 1673

Quit your job, fuck it. You must have nothing but poker so that you may really strive to achieve the best. ALL OR NOTHING BABY FUCK THE LIFE BANKROLL MANAGEMENT, THIS IS IT; POKER, I'M ALL IN.


whamm!   Albania. Mar 11 2011 08:50. Posts 11625

you have to love poker to keep doing it, otherwise this game is torture. i agree with it being the best instrument for ROI tho


sniderstyle   United States. Mar 11 2011 15:54. Posts 2046

"Yet in poker if you gave me $2K I can turn that into 5 digits ez by the end of the month"

easy huh? after i read that i pretty much disregarded everything else. i tend to shut off when i hear something stupid

This was addressed to a specific person who wanted to quit his dad's restaurant business to play 50nl not to the world - i just put it here because it had some general practical advice for everyone. take what you want
if youre a good poker player then by all means become a pro but a struggling 50nl player looking for a coach shouldn't quit his job

Genginho: lose today 100 dollar only because of fishs they called and had luck on river 

LemOn[5thF]   Czech Republic. Mar 11 2011 17:30. Posts 15163

His dad's business?

This is like ROFL, he has 100% re-employability. Even if he plays NL2 and loses there why wouldn't he do what he likes for a couple months Sniderstyle as long as he saved up some dough for living expenses?

93% Sure!  

LemOn[5thF]   Czech Republic. Mar 11 2011 17:41. Posts 15163

The 'Rest Of the world' will not have such easy coming back to work, and the mentioned gaps in CV can hurt your career prospects, and there can be a time gap between running out of money/finding out that poker is not for you and getting a new job as you will always have unsuccessful application and recruitment process takes time. If that happens there is a threat of running into cash flow troubles for a few months and you can fuck up your credit rating.

In catering and especially when your family owns a business, its super easy and fast to get a job again and you literally lose nothing by trying and you can only gain...

93% Sure! Last edit: 11/03/2011 17:42

Highcard   Canada. Mar 11 2011 19:15. Posts 5428


  On March 11 2011 14:54 sniderstyle wrote:
"Yet in poker if you gave me $2K I can turn that into 5 digits ez by the end of the month"

easy huh? after i read that i pretty much disregarded everything else. i tend to shut off when i hear something stupid

This was addressed to a specific person who wanted to quit his dad's restaurant business to play 50nl not to the world - i just put it here because it had some general practical advice for everyone. take what you want
if youre a good poker player then by all means become a pro but a struggling 50nl player looking for a coach shouldn't quit his job



But it is easy once you have put in the time/knowledge. Shutting off is ignorance since everything I said was much more practical than you.

Now that you divulged more information, based on it being his Dad's business (which means he can Always go back to that job) and he is young, there is not 1 single better time for him to apply himself and take risk.

I have learned from poker that being at the table is not a grind, the grind is living and poker is how I pass the time 

Highcard   Canada. Mar 11 2011 19:21. Posts 5428

You have leaks in your game, logic and outlook. You did post some practical advice for random people but it is littered with bias

I have learned from poker that being at the table is not a grind, the grind is living and poker is how I pass the time 

sniderstyle   United States. Mar 12 2011 01:50. Posts 2046

its funny how your'er attacking my game when i dont even play anymore

my logic and outlook are from my own experiences and wrong or right, i don't care. guy asked for my advice and that was it

Genginho: lose today 100 dollar only because of fishs they called and had luck on river 

 



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