Interesting deep 10/20 hand.

Villan in the hand is young asian kid who is more competent than most of the people that play this game (might be from the interwebs but who knows these days) but by no means do you consider him "good". He is currently losing and seems tilted. Your image in this game is super aggro boss god-moding genius who hasn't lost a day in 2 months. You've had a pretty aggro dynamic with this villan in previous sessions, and you know he's capable of running some big bluffs.

You open UTG+1 to $70 with at a table where most of the line-up is easily over 150bbs. Tight old man calls in middle position. Villan raises button to $290. You call and the tight reg calls.

Effective stacks:
Tight Reg ($5,000)
Hero / You ($12,000)
Villan has everyone covered.

Flop: (Pot: $900)
You check, tight reg checks, Villan bets $550. You raise to $1500. Tight reg folds, Villan tanks for a bit then calls.

Turn: (Pot: $3900)
You bet $2500 (With $7500 behind). Villan tanks for a while, then raises $3500 more to $6000.

Discuss line, and turn decision. Is your turn decision the same if he jams all-in on the turn?

COME ON HIGH STEAKS LP.NET. I'M BORED AND NEED ANSWERS TO ALL OF LIFE'S GREAT MYSTERIES NOOOOWWWW

I have a question too,

I've played online poker for 6 months until it was finally made impossible by the us government but...

Are these spots not super read dependent? Can anyone really give u advice in these spots? So much of poker is figured out and standard lines are standard. So my question sort of ties into how do u get such detailed reads and information? I feel like if u know the ranges and the player and the reads everyone can tell u the proper line (which is mistaken for the answer) but more important than the line is how u get those reads And the data?

Sorry for hijack but as played based on my personal experience with live, everyone is always tighter than they appear and ppl still pay them off hero calling. I think I fold turn esp since he's Asian, no one gives Asians credit and he should know that

you cant fold imo...he might be waiting for a 'safe' turn to put it in....you can have all kinds of draws.

id expect someone tilted to 3bet me on the flop with sets, QT and T7. so i jam. obviously dont feel very good about it, but i dont think you can find a fold here


edit: i guess he can have 76 here. this is actually a pretty brutal spot with 300bb behind. i still think its a jam but in the moment i think id have a much harder time actually putting the money in but would probably eventually do it.

cant imagine bet/folding the turn as played with history given/how the hand was played up to this point. sorta sucks but with these dynamics 6 buyin coolers just happen

if villain is tilted couldnt he play a hand like AJ QQ KK AA like this? i mean, hypothetically he could even decide he just wants to gambool with a hand like JTs right?

I cant really imagine getting it in on the flop being good and I can't really see getting it in on the turn being good either so I guess I don't like the flop checkraise. You're pretty much counting on villain to call down with one pair and for the turn and river to go blank blank.

pretty good chance he just has an overpair and is trying to run it vs you on safe-ish turn but i think he would probably shove if that was the case. Combo draw isn't out of his range given how deep the stacks are he can win more by raising the turn bet without shoving to look scary. I say go with it or don't check raise the flop and let him barrel off. Also you haven't lost in two months so river 9 coming anyways.

I really have no idea wtf he has here so I'm guessing it's a total retard airball move with kq or k10

On July 30 2011 16:15 NMcNasty wrote: I cant really imagine getting it in on the flop being good and I can't really see getting it in on the turn being good either so I guess I don't like the flop checkraise. You're pretty much counting on villain to call down with one pair and for the turn and river to go blank blank.

i somewhat agree, although playing this oop will also be uncomortable on a lot of turn and rivers if we do c/c. however i do think given how uncomfortable it is when we get 3bet or raised on the turn that we should check call here on the flop which has the benefit of adding some strength to our c/c range.

On July 30 2011 16:15 NMcNasty wrote: I cant really imagine getting it in on the flop being good and I can't really see getting it in on the turn being good either so I guess I don't like the flop checkraise. You're pretty much counting on villain to call down with one pair and for the turn and river to go blank blank.

I agree with this. I think c/r has to be the worst option on the flop. You have too much behind with too many turn/river that can make future decisions a headache when you jack up the pot. Even if turn/river bricks, there's no way your opponent is calling off flop c/r, turn bet and all in river with 1 pair.

I'd prefer leading the flop to avoid free turn and get value from 1pair/gutter/oesd.
If you are sure villain is gonna c-bet alot, i'd rather c/c and lead safe turn.

If you c/r the flop here, i think you should be doing it with intention to play for stacks. You have to be sure he's tilted out of his mind and ship in good pair with oesd/over pair/or even retard draw like peachy mentioned with assumption that u are truly the aggro boss that's playing pair/oesd like this.

i agree with andrew 100%

i am actually really surprised people checkraise here. I kinda want to know why... cuz i definitely see it more likely that said player 3barrels us here than calls it off with 1 pair

This is a hand my roommate played, but he told me the hand wrong. Pretty interesting discussion so far thou.

I'm assuming things change if the board reads

I hate the check raise

Hate it less on K98 but still not a fan

ye i wouldn't ck raise this deep unless i knew a lot of specifics of how he would react. or i guess maybe if u had a read he never would 3bet a bluff on flop but would always 3bet better hands and never flat them. obviously thats super rare but its kind of an example of a spot id think its ok so then u could checkraise and just barrel off or bet/get it in on turn. I dunno its hard to imagine checkraising playing out very well once a bunch of money goes in. for value id probably cutoff my checkraising with K9 K8 might still be a flat but then atleast he has 98 that can get coolered with and call it off as well as make bad calls with worse. Its not a bad thing to be polarized here btw. doesnt mean we're not balanced enough

that c/r is so terrible on a K98, you're forcing him to either playmaster spaz, peel a draw, or have exactly 88 AK AA that you beat and he might put in more $ with.

we do not beat 88 with 89 on this board afaik nolan

nolan beats 88 with 89 actually.