AT in EP with 20bb stack

I hate having 20bb stacks in tournaments. I feel like I cant really raise, and its to much to shove. So I decided to make a minraise, since everybody was pretty tight at this table, and they mostly just fold. And if someone calls I can still steel some pots with a cb, and obv stack of with tp.

Then this happended. I dont feel like I can fold here with this much in the pot. Does villian ever shove up with worse here?

He's 14/9 in around 30 hands, the other guy was had more tagish stats. But still over a very small sample

Submitted by : Nacta

PokerStars Game #64734064585: Tournament #430010421, $5.00+$0.50 USD Holdem No Limit - Level X (300/600) - 2011/07/18 21:39:35 CET [2011/07/18 15:39:35 ET]
Table 430010421 26 9-max Seat #7 is the button
Seat 1: goldeninho (26092 in chips)
Seat 2: Hero (12152 in chips)
Seat 3: Gleb 4e? (5251 in chips)
Seat 4: McStepsen (8950 in chips)
Seat 5: checker03 (14555 in chips)
Seat 6: Closhide (8623 in chips)
Seat 7: ZUBOSHEK (34327 in chips)
Seat 8: primdisc (32590 in chips)
Seat 9: Mc .Claud78 (5846 in chips)
goldeninho: posts the ante 50
Hero: posts the ante 50
Gleb 4e?: posts the ante 50
McStepsen: posts the ante 50
checker03: posts the ante 50
Closhide: posts the ante 50
ZUBOSHEK: posts the ante 50
primdisc: posts the ante 50
Mc .Claud78: posts the ante 50
primdisc: posts small blind 300
Mc .Claud78: posts big blind 600

Holecards
Dealt to Hero
goldeninho: folds
Hero: raises 600 to 1200
Gleb 4e?: folds
McStepsen: folds
checker03: calls 1200
Closhide: folds
ZUBOSHEK: folds
primdisc: folds
Mc .Claud78: raises 4596 to 5796 and is all-in
Hero:

im folding

fwiw min opening here is the correct size. villain can show up with worse, but rarely, and villain will still have good equity in the pot.

the guy squeeze shoving is going to be 99+ KQ and AJ+

the guy calling can be a 'wtf' range since he really should have been raising or folding in the first place

so hes probably 44-88 with some weak Ax hands and some broadwways...doesnt really matter though


you just gotta fold

ok thx, good to know I did the right thing then.

guy squeezing can def. have a much larger range than that. Depends on the player and if he's smart, your image, but if you were loose, I would be squeezing way wider than the range listed above

i probably reshove; 2:1 and you have 40% equity i would guess. doubt if this guy is folding a9s in the BB. 5 dolla tourney he could be pretty wide

i think he has just the amount that you can't really fold. I'm too lazy but stove his shoving range (pairs, broadways, etc.) and see if you have equity. You are only really super phazed if checker03 is trapping u

-edited out for amusement-

I'd usually push.. checker is gonna fold almost always and you have odds to call the shove even without his 1200 chips.. stats usually don't mean much in a tourney, 14/9 over 30 hands certainly doesn't mean much at all..

sucks if checker calls with aqakaakk but he's really not that likely to have that.

On July 19 2011 18:31 Liquid`Drone wrote: I'd usually push.. checker is gonna fold almost always and you have odds to call the shove even without his 1200 chips.. stats usually don't mean much in a tourney, 14/9 over 30 hands certainly doesn't mean much at all.. sucks if checker calls with aqakaakk but he's really not that likely to have that.

Pretty much what he said... Folding is safer, but I think pushing here is the best play, so long as checker isn't super passive and would flat big hands, and then be calling your shove.... It's rare, but it does happen and it is SUPER tilting when he has like JJ-AA here

shove

isn't it like very standard to be with 20-30bb in tournament poker?

i would reshove her e;-0

i think folding is insane

reshove, rly? he is raisin from almost ep..

But the squeezers stack is so little he's desperate to double up and even more - to take a stab at all of that dead money in the pot. He should be doing it with quite wide range, so i insta push. Even without all of that, you have big enough pot odds to push it.

Also you can open push with those stacks, no problem

Would like to know how far along in tourney you are, avg stack size, when is the bubble, top prize etc. tournament play always has situational considerations.

If you are far from $$$ I prolly fold. Winning this pot may not make a huge difference in how far you go but losing cripples you down to 10 bb or so.

You are likely behind and possibly crushed. Also caller def can have big pair hoping bb will squeeze i often flat JJ+ here. Villain is squeezing but prolly expects a call due to pot odds offered, so range may not be as wide as some suspect. Then again $5 tourney guy could have JTs easily too.

If table is tight you can prob get the 1200 back next orbit stealing in position. Look for a better spot to stick in half your stack.

looks to me like a easy fold preflop, this isnt 6max and your chips are not infinite.

you can't open preflop with 20bb and fold to a shove from 10bb, your spewing way to many of your chips away.

this is a clear RESHIP.

bb has 10bb he can have 22-AA/A2-AK/TJss+ / as well as 78ss etc. i never fold here, ever.

u want to win or chip down -_-

btw he has 88 here SO often its ridiculous, don't be scared, win.

Totally agree with NeillyJQ, also, its fine to raise with 20bb regardless of being utg, utg+1/2/3 etc. The shortstack should be shipping 77/88/99/KQ/ maybe even KJ
enough, that reshipping is the only right move. 910 times ur gonna end up HU with the guy who shipped, and should you lose, you still have just around 10bbs after the blinds move through.Imo folding here is not gonna win you mtts.

so hero raises in EP with ATs and ~ 20 bb, winning reg from MP flats, and fish shoves from the bb. i am like 99% sure the fish squeezing from the blind isn't thinking anything other than 'oh wow, i got a really good hand, all in!'

and question: what hands does this person flat in the MP that folds to this situation in? clearly, if he is flatting the EP raiser, and he is likely aware that the EP raiser should be strong (and ATs is the weak end of the range, no less), what is he going to fold?

so it's a clear re-ship with AT, to go up against at least one person who is clearly stronger (save KQs) and quite likely a second opponent who has us covered and should beat our hand (since he is likely aware of the gap principle)?

I still think fold. Like fuji said, it's "safer" and being that it's only level 10, with many players left and many spots left to play, i will happily wait for one where i have a considerably bigger edge.

and FWIW gambling this hand doesn't mean you 'win' it just means you will accumulate some more chips, which, at this point, will not have a large determining factor on the outcome of the entire tourney. winning 10 bb more, crippling yourself, or busting..... only 1 of those options is attractive, and its also the option that is least likely to occur


*Edit - my earlier post about the MP who flats was before I looked him up, also i think my range there was bad

stats are so meaningless over a 30 hand period that you're best off ignoring them. mp flatting usually means one of two things, 1: aces, or 2: hand he doesnt want to lay down but isnt comfortable shipping (i.e. suited kqj combo.) people flatting aq+ is just really uncommon from his spot, because aq+ is such a clear and obvious reship. I mean, flatting kqj combos is also bad - but it's a much more common mistake. I'd honestly be more surprised to find MP having ak here than to find him having 9Ts, and when his range is that wide, he's gonna fold to your reship a big % of the time. hell, based on my experience with these limits, MP is occasionally gonna call your reship with a lower ace or some king-hand - and definitely pp's lower than 10s.

as for the shove from bb, im not doing exactmath but I think you have to win like 30% to break even - if his range is aj+ tt+ you're actually there. but even a tight range includes 77+, and I'd guess you were in the 40-45%+ area against his actual range. that is an absolutely huge edge. sucks if mp trapped you, but it's so unlikely that you just gotta pay him off if it's the case.

a regular winning mtt player will clearly 3bet anything > A10s here.

excluding pairs from 6s n down

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