UFC118 - Penn vs Edgar 2 / Couture vs Toney

MAIN CARD
Nate Diaz vs. Marcus Davis (Welterweight)
Kenny Florian vs. Gray Maynard (Lightweight)
Demian Maia vs. Mario Miranda (Middleweight)
Randy Couture vs. James Toney (Heavyweight)
Frankie Edgar (c) vs. B.J. Penn (Lightweight Championship)


Predictions?

My picks:
Diaz > Davis
Florian > Maynard
Maia > Miranda
Couture > Toney
Edgar < Penn

I'm looking forward to BJ knocking Edgar the fuck out in RO1, and am curious to see how long Toney will last. Would be nice to keep the fight standing up for at least a while to see how Couture will hold up.

Toney wont last, even if he manages to survive the GnP he has no cardio to wrestle Randy, he is going to be exhausted by round 2

Pen is going to murder Edgar.. how is Edgar in the top 10 list of P4P fighters ROFL

I think Diaz, florian, maia, Couture and Peen. I might bet on Florian and Diaz just because I think Davis is over the hill and Florian matches up well with Maynard.

This card is BORING! Not playing for this one

^wtf awesome card!

so so card... i hate the fact they are being so gay and saying on the toney vs couture fight "oh they are different sports", fuck that shit, boxing is a sport with random irrational rules, MMA is a true fight... sadly american regulations are making it every day less and less a real fight with no real gains in the safety of the fighters.

On August 26 2010 10:06 Baal wrote: so so card... i hate the fact they are being so gay and saying on the toney vs couture fight "oh they are different sports", fuck that shit, boxing is a sport with random irrational rules, MMA is a true fight... sadly american regulations are making it every day less and less a real fight with no real gains in the safety of the fighters.

I am going to go see this fight at a local casino and I am going to LOL if Toney just fucking haymaker's Couture's jaw in for 1 punch KO :D.

On August 26 2010 07:14 JDK87 wrote: I'm looking forward to BJ knocking Edgar the fuck out in RO1.

On August 26 2010 11:06 TheHuHu3 wrote: I am going to LOL if Toney just fucking haymaker's Couture's jaw in for 1 punch KO :D.

Seeing as Penn is my all time favourite fighter I am pretty excited about this card. I didn't think BJ lost the first fight and I don't see how Edgar ever wins the 2nd. Frankie is going to try and do pretty much the same thing all over with some minor changes where as I think BJ is going to be way more aggressive than last time neutralising that strategy. I can't see Frankie ever knocking BJ's granite chin out or Edgar particularly wanting to go the ground, not that he could keep BJ there or take him down anyway. Hopefully there are no retarded 50-45's given this time around.

I don't think he will but I hope Toney wins. That dude is a crack up and can sell tickets. He talks this much smack having never fought MMA, imagine what he is gonna be like calling out Lesnar and shit if he wins. Would be awesome.

Looking forward to the Lauzon fight and the Maynard vs Florian fight. Gray seemed fed up with the weight cutting at the press conference which was interesting.

Nate Diaz vs. Marcus Davis (Welterweight) (Welterweight) - no idea really.

Kenny Florian vs. Gray Maynard (Lightweight) -
florini by decision or RNC. gray is more of a strength wrestler than a explosive wrestler which means hes going to have to get a good clinch or hold of florini to take him down. florians got very good foot work and he stuffed guida with ease & just looks much better of a wrestler since joining greg jacksons. he's a much much better fighter than when he fought sherk. i expect him to stay on the outside and pick gray apart on the feet. maybe get taken down a few times but will win from the bottom.

Demian Maia vs. Mario Miranda (Middleweight)
demian maia by submission/decision. never seen mario fight but after seeing pictures of him being on his back a lot ill just go ahead and assume maia will be able to get him down.

Randy Couture vs. James Toney (Heavyweight)[/b[
I fully expect randy to win but james has a better chance than most people think. randy has an absolute wet paper towel of a chin. he got dropped in pretty brutal fashion by slow way passed his prime washed up nog who i love but hits like a frenchmen. tony is much more accurate and is much faster than any striker randys fought. he can most certainly catch randy coming in or even in the split second in the clinch fire off an uppercut that puts randy out. the moment it hits the ground though i expect it to be all over.

[b]Frankie Edgar vs. B.J. Penn (Lightweight Championship)
bj was way too passive last time. i expect him to come out very aggressive. its hard to say who will win because frankie has a good speed advantage and speed is so important. ill take bj though by submission/dominant decision. i think hes gonna chase down edgar walk threw edgars boxing and land big shots and mix it up with takedown attempts.

edgar should be at 145 and could possibly even make 135 but is a top 5 155 in the world. pretty obvious why hes top 10 p4p


agree with all of stims commentary

MAIN CARD

Nate Diaz vs. Marcus Davis (Welterweight) - Nate Diaz, he's really sick. TKO / submission by rd 2 imo

Kenny Florian vs. Gray Maynard (Lightweight) - I think this fight goes to decision 90%+. Really feels like a coinflip to me, so I'd put money on Maynard where the line is at right now (+150 for Maynard) but would probably choose Ken Flo to win the fight.

Demian Maia vs. Mario Miranda (Middleweight) - Mario Miranda via TKO. Think he has some underrated power. And Maia has shown that he doesn't have the greatest chin.

Randy Couture vs. James Toney (Heavyweight) - lol Couture via so many different funny things he can do. Time to bet the house on Couture at -550, caz Toney has to be drawing close to dead here. Toney use to be a natural middleweight that has ballooned up to heavyweight the past couple of years due to aging / not doing shit. For someone nicknamed "lights out", it's funny that his last legit KO was in 2003 vs Evander Holyfeild, and since then he's taken all his fights to decision (No one knows nor gives a fuck as to who Matthew Greer is). Not even close to enough time for him to prepare for any half decent MMA fighter, let alone Couture. I'd probably pick Couture at even money in a straight boxing match at this point.

Frankie Edgar (c) vs. B.J. Penn (Lightweight Championship) - BJ Penn. I thought he won the first fight. Since he didn't win the first fight I'm pretty sure he's going to come into this to prove a point and let everyone know that he's a lot better than Edgar. BJ Penn at 100% killer mode would trash the Frankie Edgar at UFC 112. The only thing is that Edgar has consistently looked better and better with each fight he takes, and if he continues on that path, it wouldn't be too unrealistic to see an even better Edgar that comes in and makes it yet another evenly matched fight. However, I feel if he doesn't come in looking better than he did at UFC 112, this will be a short night for him.

Damn my James Toney "Period" had to go? Lights out for that comment.

Doug Crosby 50-45 for Edgar = kill yourself you blind old man

Poor Kenny Florian is going to get the silver medal for the 3rd straight time after this fight

"While Toney KOing a slow-footed Couture is not completely out of the question, it’s 10 times more likely Couture will put him down and find an appendage to bend. Bettors beware: this is a fight most welterweights could win. Couture by submission. -Sherdog

Randy Couture vs. James Toney (Heavyweight) - lol Couture via so many different funny things he can do. Time to bet the house on Couture at -550, caz Toney has to be drawing close to dead here. Toney use to be a natural middleweight that has ballooned up to heavyweight the past couple of years due to aging / not doing shit. For someone nicknamed "lights out", it's funny that his last legit KO was in 2003 vs Evander Holyfeild, and since then he's taken all his fights to decision (No one knows nor gives a fuck as to who Matthew Greer is). Not even close to enough time for him to prepare for any half decent MMA fighter, let alone Couture. I'd probably pick Couture at even money in a straight boxing match at this point.

Frankie Edgar (c) vs. B.J. Penn (Lightweight Championship) - BJ Penn. I thought he won the first fight. Since he didn't win the first fight I'm pretty sure he's going to come into this to prove a point and let everyone know that he's a lot better than Edgar. BJ Penn at 100% killer mode would trash the Frankie Edgar at UFC 112. The only thing is that Edgar has consistently looked better and better with each fight he takes, and if he continues on that path, it wouldn't be too unrealistic to see an even better Edgar that comes in and makes it yet another evenly matched fight. However, I feel if he doesn't come in looking better than he did at UFC 112, this will be a short night for him.[/QUOTE]


-550 is a great bet for Couture in this fight. You are outside your mind though if you think in a boxing match that the odds would be close to even there as well. In fact if it were specifically Couture (and not a better MMA striker...there are plenty), in this hypothetical event, I'd bet that the odds would be greater than 5 to 1. To give you a quick idea of the switch in sports, several years ago when Roy Jones Jr. wasn't totally shot and the idea of Anderson Silva (Silva said he grew up watching Jones yada yada yada) fighting Jones in a boxing match was floated around (which was veto'd and snuffed out by Dana White fyi), PinnacleSports had their future odds at -1900 for Jones. If such a thing existed and Saturday's fight was a pure boxing match at even odds, I'd almost literally be betting the house on Toney. Not figuratively. Did you like...just wikipedia James Toney and Boxing real quick to come up with that analysis or what. Sure sounds like it. He's been inactive during the past few years because he clearly lost his last even semi-noteworthy fight to Sam Peter (who may barely be considered top 10) in the rematch to go 0-2 against Peter in addition to being lackluster in his following outings to make Toney become fairly irrelevant in boxing. Why do you think he's even risking getting his arms and legs broken by going into MMA? He's too old, lazy, and fat now to make the lighter divisions in boxing which is where he was best suited since he's only 5'9ish. And the heavyweight division is ruled by the Klitschko brothers who are 6'6-6'7 250ish with easily the best skill as well. Nobody would approve a fight between them at this point in Toney's career hence no payday even though in his bullshit rambling, he's called them out. He called out Brock Lesnar too even before this Couture thing shaped up. I'd doubt even in his warped mind he'd think he'd be any match for Lesnar in a cage or the Klitschko's in a boxing ring. It's just what he does. The 'Lights Out' moniker is just all tied to his promotional bs'ing. He wasn't even considered a power puncher at lighter weights in boxing...just really slick.

I watch both sports. Admittedly still like boxing fights better though I've watched a lot of MMA the past year (apparently Temecula, CA has a notable MMA following. Team Quest!). I said boxing 'fights' specifically because I like the way the business of MMA is run waaaay better than boxing right now. I'm actually honestly rooting for Couture in the fight coz I like Couture (Expendables!), and I never liked Toney even in boxing. But skewing this entire promotion/event into a boxing vs mma thing to see which is better is just a sick ploy/gimmick being promoted by Dana White, who def. knows what he's doing in manipulating his fan base and bringing in mainstream recognition imo. The argument is just intrinsically retarded. They're both different. Any MMA fighter thinking they could switch over and box professionally and make it to the top is just delusional (else they'd already have done it no? $$ at the top level is clearly still far greater in boxing...subject to change obviously once MMA branches out more) as are boxers who think they can just take their boxing skills into the cage without extensive MMA training and not get mangled. The only way these things happen in the present and near future is when over the hill athletes start searching for that last paycheck. Athletes in their prime and at or near the top of their sports...why would they risk leaving their comfort level when they're gettin' handed loot for doin' what they do. Ray Mercer vs Tim Sylvia/Kimbo happened because of this. Albeit a much lower profile. Now it's happening with Toney.

Oh and I saw the Penn/Edgar fight. Boring, kinda stupid fight...made so by Edgar which I hated him for. And yeah several of the rounds were close, but I'm really not sure how you'd score it for Penn. In fact as I type this out, I'm watching an interview of Penn, and he's admitting he fought a bad fight. Seemed like he kinda just stood and stalked without throwing too much. Maybe I'll re-watch it before Saturday.

On August 26 2010 13:16 JonnyCosMo wrote: I'd probably pick Couture at even money in a straight boxing match at this point.

Well that'd be a big mistake

FUck that

i cant believe im hyped to watch toney vs couture heh :/, but the main event will probably be really interesting, looking forward to it

On August 26 2010 12:31 Daut wrote: edgar should be at 145 and could possibly even make 135 but is a top 5 155 in the world. pretty obvious why hes top 10 p4p agree with all of stims commentary

well that is true, and thats is why Fedor is by far the #1 P2P, because he could fight at 195 or even 185

i agree, Couture is definitelly a considerable dog to Toney in a boxing match, but Toney is an even bigger dog in MMA, am i the only one who thinks Toney just wont have cardio, the guy is just too fucking old and big now, thats why i give Randy a chance in boxing.

Id like to see Dos Santos vs Toney

anyone who thinks that toney is gonna KO randy cuz he's some elite boxer.

randy trains with good boxers who are not 42 and washed up (toney is)

he knows how hard they can hit. toney barely has a punchers chance he is not a 1 shot ko guy. he is awkward, defensive.. he is just awkward and not some pour it on guy.

On August 26 2010 18:28 Baal wrote: i agree, Couture is definitelly a considerable dog to Toney in a boxing match, but Toney is an even bigger dog in MMA, am i the only one who thinks Toney just wont have cardio, the guy is just too fucking old and big now, thats why i give Randy a chance in boxing. Id like to see Dos Santos vs Toney

lol. tonys got a pretty decent punchers chance in mma. randy has literally no chance in boxing. zero. i dunno if itd even be sanctioned.

On August 26 2010 19:23 Fox wrote: anyone who thinks that toney is gonna KO randy cuz he's some elite boxer. randy trains with good boxers who are not 42 and washed up (toney is) he knows how hard they can hit. toney barely has a punchers chance he is not a 1 shot ko guy. he is awkward, defensive.. he is just awkward and not some pour it on guy.

couture got dropped hard twice by washed up big nog, wobbled by coleman. wobbled hard by lesnar than ko'd by lesnar.

tony doesnt have great power in boxing... but in boxing hes facing guys who almost always have pretty decent chins to get to that level and even the cans he fought are much much better than randy in boxing.

you dont need one shot ko power to put away randy. his chin is really awful now. tony has more than enough power to put him away with one punch. couture got dropped hard twice by washed up big nog, wobbled by coleman. wobbled hard by lesnar than ko'd by lesnar.

randy is gonna win a huge percentage of the time but the possibility tony ko's him is very real imo.

nog dropped him... but randy wasn't out cold. i bet you tony can't even finish him with strikes on the ground lol. no he was dropped by lesnar and finished by hammer fists. Tony won't finish him on the ground. Toney is so bad LOL soooo bad it's laughable. it's barely a punchers chance. I give ernesto hoost at 45 a better chance at koing randy.

On August 26 2010 20:47 Fox wrote: nog dropped him... but randy wasn't out cold. i bet you tony can't even finish him with strikes on the ground lol. no he was dropped by lesnar and finished by hammer fists. Tony won't finish him on the ground. Toney is so bad LOL soooo bad it's laughable. it's barely a punchers chance. I give ernesto hoost at 45 a better chance at koing randy.

nog doesnt hit anywhere near as hard as tony nor as fast and will come from harder angles to see coming. randy was hurt really bad by nog. he collapsed completely and went limp for a second. but honestly nog couldnt ground and pound his way out of a wet paper bag. lesnars punch also collapsed randy like a sack of meat.

you are right in the fact its not just because tony is a great striker, though you are certainly underestimating his boxing. i give any top notch striker with good hands a decent punchers chance at randy because his chin is so bad these days.

most of this is moot as randy is likely gonna take him down and sub him pretty easily but if tony does land a punch expect randy to be in really big trouble and most likely out cold.

On August 26 2010 21:05 Stim_Abuser wrote: Show nested quote + On August 26 2010 20:47 Fox wrote: nog dropped him... but randy wasn't out cold. i bet you tony can't even finish him with strikes on the ground lol. no he was dropped by lesnar and finished by hammer fists. Tony won't finish him on the ground. Toney is so bad LOL soooo bad it's laughable. it's barely a punchers chance. I give ernesto hoost at 45 a better chance at koing randy. nog doesnt hit anywhere near as hard as tony nor as fast and will come from harder angles to see coming. randy was hurt really bad by nog. he collapsed completely and went limp for a second. but honestly nog couldnt ground and pound his way out of a wet paper bag. lesnars punch also collapsed randy like a sack of meat. you are right in the fact its not just because tony is a great striker, though you are certainly underestimating his boxing. i give any top notch striker with good hands a decent punchers chance at randy because his chin is so bad these days. most of this is moot as randy is likely gonna take him down and sub him pretty easily but if tony does land a punch expect randy to be in really big trouble and most likely out cold.

do you think that RAndy will trade punches with Tony?, Randy thought he could outbox Nogeira and even if he didnt you cant just shoot Royce style and expect to take down Nog unlike tony who will be taken down so easily.

I mean, just watch Kimbo vs Mercier ffs

On August 26 2010 21:24 Baal wrote: Show nested quote + On August 26 2010 21:05 Stim_Abuser wrote:   On August 26 2010 20:47 Fox wrote: nog dropped him... but randy wasn't out cold. i bet you tony can't even finish him with strikes on the ground lol. no he was dropped by lesnar and finished by hammer fists. Tony won't finish him on the ground. Toney is so bad LOL soooo bad it's laughable. it's barely a punchers chance. I give ernesto hoost at 45 a better chance at koing randy. nog doesnt hit anywhere near as hard as tony nor as fast and will come from harder angles to see coming. randy was hurt really bad by nog. he collapsed completely and went limp for a second. but honestly nog couldnt ground and pound his way out of a wet paper bag. lesnars punch also collapsed randy like a sack of meat. you are right in the fact its not just because tony is a great striker, though you are certainly underestimating his boxing. i give any top notch striker with good hands a decent punchers chance at randy because his chin is so bad these days. most of this is moot as randy is likely gonna take him down and sub him pretty easily but if tony does land a punch expect randy to be in really big trouble and most likely out cold. do you think that RAndy will trade punches with Tony?, Randy thought he could outbox Nogeira and even if he didnt you cant just shoot Royce style and expect to take down Nog unlike tony who will be taken down so easily. I mean, just watch Kimbo vs Mercier ffs

na if you read most of my posts in this thread i said tonys only got two chances. when randy closes the distance for the takedown and if randy goes for a clinch takedown. most boxers and tonys no exception throw good punches from the clinch. its only a couple seconds each time but its still a possibility.

nah i know he has a punchers chance, but he has one of the lowest punchers chance from any good boxer ever.

On August 26 2010 18:28 Baal wrote: am i the only one who thinks Toney just wont have cardio, the guy is just too fucking old and big now, thats why i give Randy a chance in boxing.

No you're not the only one. Seeing that fat fucker huffing and puffing in the countdown show on the ground was hilarious. His movement on the ground and kicking/kneeing was absolutely pitiful. Barring some excuse like it was the end of training and he was just really tired in every piece of footage, he has no chance on the ground or doing anything except punching. Credit must go to Toney and the UFC for making it seem like he is 50-50 or 55-45 in this fight when really his chances are almost zero. Like others have been saying though I think the characteristic that gives Toney that small chance is not Toney's punching power (or lack there of) but Randy's weakened chin.

yea tonys not gonna have grappling cardio at all... of course.

doesnt really matter though. cardio shouldnt be a factor. either james tony gets the ko in under one minute or hes on his back and getting submitted regardless of cardio.

On August 27 2010 01:05 Stim_Abuser wrote: yea tonys not gonna have grappling cardio at all... of course. doesnt really matter though. cardio shouldnt be a factor. either james tony gets the ko in under one minute or hes on his back and getting submitted regardless of cardio.

it would be stupid for randy to clinch-takedown, he should just shoot to the legs, Tony has no defense for it, he wont knee him, he cant punch him behind the head, he cannot escape if randy grabs a leg etc, shoot fast to the legs, work him on top and ez gg

On August 27 2010 03:48 Baal wrote: Show nested quote + On August 27 2010 01:05 Stim_Abuser wrote: yea tonys not gonna have grappling cardio at all... of course. doesnt really matter though. cardio shouldnt be a factor. either james tony gets the ko in under one minute or hes on his back and getting submitted regardless of cardio. it would be stupid for randy to clinch-takedown, he should just shoot to the legs, Tony has no defense for it, he wont knee him, he cant punch him behind the head, he cannot escape if randy grabs a leg etc, shoot fast to the legs, work him on top and ez gg

agreed. randys background is clinch though and almost all his fights he clinches. he certainly has a good double/single but sometimes when you train that long natural reactions kinda take over.

tony could land an uppercut on an incoming shot.

i have to defend tony having a small shot so much its looking like i think he'll win lol.

LOL at Toney at the weighins today. Apparently 5'10 and 237lbs of lard is "in shape." That fight is a complete joke. Look for Penn to get his title back by any variety of means. And Florian will decision or submit a very tough Gray Maynard.

On August 27 2010 16:12 SolidState wrote: LOL at Toney at the weighins today. Apparently 5'10 and 237lbs of lard is "in shape." That fight is a complete joke. Look for Penn to get his title back by any variety of means. And Florian will decision or submit a very tough Gray Maynard.

Saw more of Toney than I ever wanted to see, too much crack.

This is like putting Brett Farve on the starting line-up for the Boston Celtics with the logic of "Being a QB has given him enough basketball practice. He can throw a ball far and accurate, I bet you he'll make a ton of baskets!" Yea, let's not worry about the fact that he can't dribble a ball or anything...

brain scalabrine should never start for the celtics

wow @ creepy joe, sick performance.

On August 28 2010 13:05 JonnyCosMo wrote: This is like putting Brett Farve on the starting line-up for the Boston Celtics with the logic of "Being a QB has given him enough basketball practice. He can throw a ball far and accurate, I bet you he'll make a ton of baskets!" Yea, let's not worry about the fact that he can't dribble a ball or anything...

agreed. I don't think I've ever seen a boxer last more than 15 seconds on their feet in MMA and then 30 more seconds on the ground. I thought the boxing vs. mmartist dispute was settled back in UFC 1.

+ Show Spoiler +

JAMES TONEY TIME!!!!!!!!!!

this should be fun/funny

SO EXCITED!!!!!!

LOL

HANG ON TONEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!

lol toney destroyed

lol indeed

good speech by randy.

PEACH?

Shaquille O'Neal vs. Brock Lesnar, Summer 2011.

On August 28 2010 22:58 Stim_Abuser wrote: good speach by randy.

Yeah humble and respectful as usual. Randy is a class act.

For some reason that 0-1 was hilarious to me?

bjs gonna lose again lol.

first fedor now this. fuck mma

gray maynard is the #1 lw in the world.

This is brutal to watch (for me).

what were the odds for this fight?

Wasn't so much impressed with Edgar as I was just completely underwhelmed by Penn.

On August 28 2010 23:29 whamm! wrote: first fedor now this. fuck mma

thank god that shogun got back to his old self.

Training nine months to get owned in 90 seconds? LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!1111111

Melendez might be better then Edgar, but I guess it's between him, Edgar and Maynard for 1st in LW now. Kind of weird how neither BJ or Aoki can be considered #1 anymore.

On August 29 2010 14:41 DustySwedeDude wrote: Melendez might be better then Edgar, but I guess it's between him, Edgar and Maynard for 1st in LW now. Kind of weird how neither BJ or Aoki can be considered #1 anymore.

I think Edgar>BJ>Maynard>Edgar and all 3 > Melendez

And Aoki could never be considered 1 imo

On August 29 2010 14:41 DustySwedeDude wrote: Melendez might be better then Edgar, but I guess it's between him, Edgar and Maynard for 1st in LW now. Kind of weird how neither BJ or Aoki can be considered #1 anymore.

not sure if serious...

edgar is much better than melendez. melendez might have more power but edgar is leagues ahead of him in technical boxing and hand speed & footwork. i mean WAY better. edgar is also a better wrestler imo.
i'd say current #1 is gray. edgar has the better wins for sure but maynards got pretty good wins and is undefeated and has a win over edgar.

i can see an arguement for either way though. the fight will settle it and i think maynard wins the same way he won the first fight.

Well I guess Edgar has to be 1 right now. I do think it's hard to put Maynard over either of the other two considering how he is so John Fitchish, except he wins close decisions instead of really clear ones.

My point about Aoki was that at least some people had him as a contender for the first spot for a while just a few months ago but now it's only new people.

Penn dissapoints... did the same shit he did last time.. only worse.