Thorladen cheating? - Page 4

damn its like every 3 weeks someone is being pinned for something

Even though the chat log seemed very legit. One thing that seemed weird is that in the chat log, is that Thorladen seemed very worried that this could leak somehow, but on the other hand discusses it in chat, which most likely is logged.

If he was as paranoid as it seemed, why would he openly discuss it in chat with somebody that didn't have a very good reputation to start with. Somebody could easily sniff around in Mizzi's computer and get a hold of the log, or he could set himself up to be blackmailed in the future. Just seems strange to me that a smart person like Thorladen would do that.

i dont see why everyone is criticising thors first response. these are pretty serious charges and its probably going to take a long time to prepare a comprehensive response. it would be detrimental to give a response that left out even one thing that could have been explained with a little more time

as for thor himself. while i dont talk to him much anymore (i guess i did 2 years ago) hes always been a great guy and i seriously doubt he would ever do this.

On August 23 2010 18:43 Bejamin1 wrote: The stupidest thing about this is that it basically describes in detail how to set-up a multi-accounting empire. Not that it would be difficult to figure out but 2+2 should have blacked out some of the technical information where appropriate. Like really it's basically a how-to chat-log. I'll reserve any judgment until the investigation is done and over with. The chat log itself looks like it would be pretty easy to fake but apparently some others have commented on this LP thread that there is evidence which further contributes to the credibility that the chat log is in fact real?

No, this is such basic windows stuff that everyone ought to know it. If this is a revelation to you get into windows fast, disable remote access and lock your administrative account.

On August 24 2010 22:18 PoorUser wrote: i dont see why everyone is thors first response. these are pretty serious charges and its probably going to take a long time to prepare a comprehensive response. it would be detrimental to give a response that left out even one thing that could have been explained with a little more time as for thor himself. while i dont talk to him much anymore (i guess i did 2 years ago) hes always been a great guy and i seriously doubt he would ever do this.

This.

It's ridiculous how many people instantly assume the chat-log is real simply because Thor didn't come out guns blazing and saying it's all a farce. He released a carefully worded statement that he was not involved in any of these activities and is cooperating fully with the investigation. It's standard legal advice to say nothing if you are arrested before you've spoken to a lawyer. Well it's not any different when someone accuses you of the sort of wrongdoing that Thor has been accused of. It's entirely acceptable that he takes his time with his response as PoorUser explained.

Let the investigation proceed and judge the results of those proceedings accordingly. Trying to make snap judgments based on some easy to fake chat-log is hilarious. This is a huge part of the reason so many people have been wrongfully convicted of crimes and later released when DNA evidence cleared them. People on the jury take situations like this and then claim "common sense" would say that the person is guilty. I'm not on anybody's side about this issue. I couldn't give a wet slap whether he's guilty or innocent. I just fall on the side of letting the investigation complete itself before passing judgment. There is no need to shit all over someones reputation before it's actually been proven whether he's guilty or not.

If it comes out later that the OP modified the chat-log in an attempt to slander these individuals he could quite easily be slapped with a counter-suit for slander. Just let the situation play out before you judge. It's not like all won't be revealed relatively shortly when the investigation concludes itself.

On August 24 2010 22:45 Snaggle wrote: Show nested quote + On August 23 2010 18:43 Bejamin1 wrote: The stupidest thing about this is that it basically describes in detail how to set-up a multi-accounting empire. Not that it would be difficult to figure out but 2+2 should have blacked out some of the technical information where appropriate. Like really it's basically a how-to chat-log. I'll reserve any judgment until the investigation is done and over with. The chat log itself looks like it would be pretty easy to fake but apparently some others have commented on this LP thread that there is evidence which further contributes to the credibility that the chat log is in fact real? No, this is such basic windows stuff that everyone ought to know it. If this is a revelation to you get into windows fast, disable remote access and lock your administrative account.

The point isn't that the information is basic - it quite obviously is - the point is to someone who such an idea never would have occurred to the alleged conversation is a how-to which upon reading it a bunch of people might go "Hey I'd like to play 4 Sunday Millions too, lol why not?" or whatever. I can 100% guarantee you that at least one person after reading that chat-log will try out a multiple account system. It's the same reason that when con artists are arrested they don't often post the details of their scams to the public. It's not that the scams are so complex nobody could ever figure them out for themselves. It's that it doesn't do the public any good to put a bunch of how-to scam ideas out there..

On August 24 2010 22:51 Bejamin1 wrote: Show nested quote + On August 24 2010 22:18 PoorUser wrote: i dont see why everyone is thors first response. these are pretty serious charges and its probably going to take a long time to prepare a comprehensive response. it would be detrimental to give a response that left out even one thing that could have been explained with a little more time as for thor himself. while i dont talk to him much anymore (i guess i did 2 years ago) hes always been a great guy and i seriously doubt he would ever do this. This. It's ridiculous how many people instantly assume the chat-log is real simply because Thor didn't come out guns blazing and saying it's all a farce. He released a carefully worded statement that he was not involved in any of these activities and is cooperating fully with the investigation. It's standard legal advice to say nothing if you are arrested before you've spoken to a lawyer. Well it's not any different when someone accuses you of the sort of wrongdoing that Thor has been accused of. It's entirely acceptable that he takes his time with his response as PoorUser explained. Let the investigation proceed and judge the results of those proceedings accordingly. Trying to make snap judgments based on some easy to fake chat-log is hilarious. This is a huge part of the reason so many people have been wrongfully convicted of crimes and later released when DNA evidence cleared them. People on the jury take situations like this and then claim "common sense" would say that the person is guilty. I'm not on anybody's side about this issue. I couldn't give a wet slap whether he's guilty or innocent. I just fall on the side of letting the investigation complete itself before passing judgment. There is no need to shit all over someones reputation before it's actually been proven whether he's guilty or not. If it comes out later that the OP modified the chat-log in an attempt to slander these individuals he could quite easily be slapped with a counter-suit for slander. Just let the situation play out before you judge. It's not like all won't be revealed relatively shortly when the investigation concludes itself.

i hope your kidding, this is a good response by pu nothing more

lol yeah its so compromising to say this conversation is made up and never happened if its true... riiiiiight.

If the conversation was doctored, absolutely made up or something like that and Thor didnt instantly said it its a retarded response.

On August 25 2010 01:35 Baal wrote: lol yeah its so compromising to say this conversation is made up and never happened if its true... riiiiiight. If the conversation was doctored, absolutely made up or something like that and Thor didnt instantly said it its a retarded response.

agreed. and its been a pretty long time since this has come out.

the long delay comes off more to me as someone trying to figure out how to get out/damage control a situation. i think a vast majority of people in his spot would be all over this and denying the claims etc.

we dont know the full truth and probably never will imo.

On August 25 2010 01:35 Baal wrote: lol yeah its so compromising to say this conversation is made up and never happened if its true... riiiiiight. If the conversation was doctored, absolutely made up or something like that and Thor didnt instantly said it its a retarded response.

don't you think it's possible that there are extenuating circumstances that those of us on the outside wouldn't even be able to consider that might cause thorladen to not be completely candid about the situation right now?

i don't know him at all, but he has had an impeccable reputation in the poker community up to this point. that doesn't make him beyond reproach, but it should earn him the benefit of the doubt for the time being, even if you think that window for doubt is pretty small.

it's hard to argue that this doesn't look good for thor based on what we see now, but people should show a little discretion before deciding to condemn him. i would imagine (or at least hope) he'll have a more forthcoming response at some point.

On August 25 2010 03:09 bigredhoss wrote: Show nested quote + On August 25 2010 01:35 Baal wrote: lol yeah its so compromising to say this conversation is made up and never happened if its true... riiiiiight. If the conversation was doctored, absolutely made up or something like that and Thor didnt instantly said it its a retarded response. don't you think it's possible that there are extenuating circumstances that those of us on the outside wouldn't even be able to consider that might cause thorladen to not be completely candid about the situation right now? i don't know him at all, but he has had an impeccable reputation in the poker community up to this point. that doesn't make him beyond reproach, but it should earn him the benefit of the doubt for the time being, even if you think that window for doubt is pretty small. it's hard to argue that this doesn't look good for thor based on what we see now, but people should show a little discretion before deciding to condemn him. i would imagine (or at least hope) he'll have a more forthcoming response at some point.

I like your points.

I'll refrain from further comments till Thorladen gives another response.

Thorladen PM me. I'll help in this network as long as i get a good share. I can help set it up with multiple proxies and can assist ib the gaming and analysis.

On August 25 2010 09:20 Maynard! wrote: Thorladen PM me. I'll help in this network as long as i get a good share. I can help set it up with multiple proxies and can assist ib the gaming and analysis.

what ?

On August 25 2010 09:20 Maynard! wrote: Thorladen PM me. I'll help in this network as long as i get a good share. I can help set it up with multiple proxies and can assist ib the gaming and analysis.

besides the fact that the convo is OVER two years old and just being released now so we have no clue about its authenticity as a whole (i have no doubt some parts of the convo are real but cant speak for 100% of it), thor probably has nothing to hide but at the same time hes a good guy and i dont think he would want to throw sorel under the bus. anything he says to defend himself could end up with him pointing a finger at someone else and i think staying quiet for now and working with the sites on this is a fine idea. who gives a fuck about what the mass public opinion is, they can speculate and feel entitled to responses all they want but after the sites clear up the situation thor can worry about the public then

Thor is taking his time to respond because he is a highly intelligent individual. When someone responds right away they normally 'lost it' and are not thinking completely clear. Thor is probably trying to assess the situation in its entirety and see what he needs to respond to and how to do it in a reasonable manner, whether he is guilty or not.

Also, while I am still skeptical, and not to defend Thor, but he is innocent until he is proven guilty. He has no past offenses associated with him, whereas Sorel does. Again, it is a little shady to talk about cheating with a cheater, that is really just asking for trouble.

All I know is, for someone to put this out there, must really really hate Thor, whether innocent or guilty. This could cost Thor A BUNCH of money, I would hate to speculate. Having someone 'erased' could cost less than $100k.

I hope Thor is innocent.

On August 25 2010 12:25 Daut wrote: besides the fact that the convo is OVER two years old and just being released now so we have no clue about its authenticity as a whole (i have no doubt some parts of the convo are real but cant speak for 100% of it), thor probably has nothing to hide but at the same time hes a good guy and i dont think he would want to throw sorel under the bus. anything he says to defend himself could end up with him pointing a finger at someone else and i think staying quiet for now and working with the sites on this is a fine idea. who gives a fuck about what the mass public opinion is, they can speculate and feel entitled to responses all they want but after the sites clear up the situation thor can worry about the public then

if sorel deserves to be thrown under a bus he should be. Instead, and maybe for the last 2 years, many other poker players have been being thrown under busses to this scheme. If anyone told me they had this sort of intention, i would feel a public duty to out it. There is something to be said about being political but the nature of thor's reply being ambiguous and not denying that the convo was either fake or adultered is ludicrous. The 2p2ers express it in very well detail as to what is shady about it and why. Sure some posts are flames but a lot are serious and provide solid reasoning to, beyond a reasonable doubt demand more transparency from him. I can't think of any good excuse to why he would not have immediately said that the conversation was doctored or adultered. It just takes a second and if it's the truth then it would be the best thing to do in every respect, legal and PR wise.

Of course, on a wild tangent, about the only semi-exusable reasoning for thor's response and lack of response I can imagine is that, if he had solid proof of the incident, say he had reported Sorel to the pokersites via emails instantly after the conversation (but it doesn't look like he's humouring him in the convo) and has verifiable logs of correspondence with an authority on the subject... then he could be intentionally wanting us to derive these conclusions as a troll before he slams down his proof. Sadly, I don't think that's going to happen, but if that is the case, it's very irresponsible from a poker community and legitimacy standpoint.

I wish I was as well spoken as daut.

If this was someone else than Thor, everyone would have been throwing stones and invectives.

Just imagine wobbly or someone else being part of this, then the community would be raging.

Not saying it's a bad idea to lean back and don't judge too fast (in general a good idea), but for me this looks very clear. Anyone that is innocent and was fabricated in a chat log like this would deny it immediately. Seems like Thor seriously discussed this but never (which we can hope) did it.

With this said, I think his response are the best one. I mean, If he took part in the conversation but never did anything, why would he bother discussing the chat log if an investigation with the sites will clear his name.

i bet every single person that has posted in this thread has cheated in one way or another in poker before