Thorladen cheating? - Page 11

On August 28 2010 18:03 Hjorturkall wrote: Show nested quote + On August 28 2010 17:38 tomson wrote:   On August 28 2010 17:33 Baal wrote: Its not even about image, its about squeezing people out of pots Humor me and give me an example with pot and bet sizes where you think it's going to be profitable. Player A and C are profit sharing against player B... Player A bets on a flop. Player B raises with . Player C goes all-in with and both player A and B fold?

Player C cannot profitably shove here with near 0 equity, because there are a ton of strong hands in player B's raising range (two pairs, sets, straight), which he will certainly never fold. Based on standard bet sizing/raising action and stack sizes by doing some simple calculations you see that player B would have to fold nearly 3/4 of the time when he has invested nearly 1/4 of his stack and has a ton of monsters in his range.

Honestly, not that hard of an example to refute.

any multiway hand (probably 4 way to flop is best) in fullring where flop is some semiconnected board with flushdraw, orig raiser (colluder 1) cbets, one fold, guy calls and partner raises youre going to get folds a super dooper high % of the time from the caller (esp if orig raiser calls the squeeze on boards where it will make sense for original raisers range)

it has to work 80% of the time and u think it doesnt?, also raising over the fish raise is just stupid, you squeeze him out of pots like if he flat calls in a 579 board and one guy has mid pair and the other has JT do you expect him to call with his single pair often?.

You are setting an example where he is almost aware of what is going on, the fish doesnt know so he doesnt know its collusion, after loosing quite a bit of money he will figure them out for maniacs and that is a false image that will play greatly against him in pots where he is HU against any of them and they will value bet the fuck out of him and he will never know what hit him.

On August 28 2010 18:25 CreamPuFF wrote: Tomson your posts are all very well written and thought out

Thanks, man.

but what exactly are you arguing? If two people team up against another player then they will have an advantage right?

If they share information about their hole cards they have a slight advantage (certain rare spots come up where it could be really profitable).

If they don't share their hole cards their advantage is close to non-existent (they might gain from perpetuating an untrue image, but it's not that big of a deal).

This is the conclusion I have come to when discussing about these things in the past. And it is one that I will stand by no matter how many insults I get from Baal, Rekrul or others, until they prove to me otherwise. I still could be wrong, but I can't really respond to posts with no substance ("naive", "stop trolling" etc.).

On August 28 2010 07:05 SolidState wrote: Why does everyone on this website hang off Rekrul's balls like he is some fucking god? Some washed up American SC player. Who fucking cares. Ya I said it. Jesus christ, get lives.

coz he's prob one of the very few people in this site who can kick my ass in sc, poker and IRL - have you seen the size of this guy?

On August 28 2010 18:33 PoorUser wrote: any multiway hand (probably 4 way to flop is best) in fullring where flop is some semiconnected board with flushdraw, orig raiser (colluder 1) cbets, one fold, guy calls and partner raises youre going to get folds a super dooper high % of the time from the caller (esp if orig raiser calls the squeeze on boards where it will make sense for original raisers range)

Mhm. Agreed. The point is it also has to work "a super dooper high % of the time". =]

On August 28 2010 18:36 Baal wrote: it has to work 80% of the time and u think it doesnt?, also raising over the fish raise is just stupid, you squeeze him out of pots like if he flat calls in a 579 board and one guy has mid pair and the other has JT do you expect him to call with his single pair often?. You are setting an example where he is almost aware of what is going on, the fish doesnt know so he doesnt know its collusion, after loosing quite a bit of money he will figure them out for maniacs and that is a false image that will play greatly against him in pots where he is HU against any of them and they will value bet the fuck out of him and he will never know what hit him.

I think here we reach a point where we can only confront opinions, not facts. I think there is a reasonable chance it will not work over 80% of the time, whether it's because of adjusting (what good players do) or frustration (what bad players do). You think it will. Fair.

On one hand you said he won't adjust to those 'organized' squeezes,on the other you say he will start reading them for maniacs. Which one is it?

A fish is a fish and however you put it - he will be losing money no doubt. I'm just questioning whether colluding is the more efficient way to take that money away from him.

Alright, I'm done for tonight, but I'll check out any responses tomorrow.

Your theory would make sense if the third party would know about the collusion but he doesnt, so first he will make the standard plays and fold in these squeeze pots, giving you an edge u werent supposed to have.

Then if this person starts adapting he will adapt wrong, he will figure them out as stupid maniacs, and he will go to valuetown and that was another big edge u are not supposed to have.

obv the biggest change of edge from 2 guys going 50/50 in 3 handed comes from image stuffs

outright bet-call-raise edge isn't that big but it still definitely exists

i don't get why thompson is trying to argue this lol

it depends

well, you will also base your future play because of history between them when you are not in the pot yourself. How could you expect them to play "as usual" when they know they have nothing to lose? they could build pretty crazy images together.

that i known for sure in this thread (and guarantee each number is way higher, and some of the instances of cheating here are pretty bad, but overall LP members are some of the most upstanding, ethical, noncheating poker players in the poker world....ya everywhere else is THAT bad)

i count 4 persons in this thread that have split action in live games (cheating)

i count 6 persons that have played and won money in tournaments for eachother or for them (cheating)

i count 2 persons that has admitted to seeing their neighbors hole cards in live poker due to bad hand protection and not given a single fuck and taken advantage of it (not cheating probably but immoral)

i count all of you for using HEM/PT (can't blame you but if previous shit is cheating so is this)

i count 6 persons that have played on multiple id's on the same site either to get action or to disguise style (cheating)

i wish i could know if any of you have multi accounted tournies or did hand sharing in cash games, i'm not sure but i guarantee so many ppl do.

for the record:
1. i have split action in live games but not in the % sense, in the sense: whoever wins the most (or loses the least) pays for the drinks at club/strip club
2. i have finished off (or played completely) tournaments for people many times. my success rate is sick. maybe I should play tournies more?
3. i started using HEM/PT (lol got to)
4. i have played on 50+ different IDs in my poker career usually to get action but sometimes because I was broke and made a deal for someone to let me play (standard)
5. i have never multi accounted or hand shared in any form of direct game manipulation

6. in the history of my long live poker career, my neighbors have showed me their cards accidentally thousands of times. i have always told them i saw their hand and warned them except about a 100 times. those 100 times include:

6.1a: if you're going to sit next to me and make sure the stripper girlfriend that you're paying to sit at the table with u and make u look 'cool' takes up my table space, i'm going to balance the universe by making sure you pay for my loss of space by me knowing ur cards.
6.2: i've warned you 3 times already...you god damn idiot....i actually believe you'd rather lose money to me than for me to bug you again by telling u to keep ur fking hand covered
6.3: if you start whining like a faggot after taking a bad beat, no one cares faggot
6.4: if you are a regular and were in a bad mood cuz you were losing then suddenly win a big pot and start acting all happy trying to talk to ppl that don't wanna talk to u so much to the point where you're too excited to cover your cards (i will inform you that i saw your hand multiple points throughout any hand we get involved to further mind fuck you)
6.5: i don't know you, but a dealer that likes me shows up at our table (lots of them around). suddenly everytime this dealer deals u a card he throws it so that if i'm slouching in my chair a bit i can see if it's a face card or not (dealer is doing this because he hates you and because he wants me to punish you). don't worry though, in this case i always give you the benefit of the doubt and sit up until i've made my own choice about your character.

and i'm one of the most realistic, honorable, and non greedy people in poker....just imagine all the greedy scumbags..WOW

or what if your mom was dying and needed 50k for heart surgery and someone offered you a superuser account on FTP...would you cheat some random 21 year old millionnaire out of 50k he'll probably spend on hookers anyways to save your dying mother or will you maintain your morals?

or what if a 100% proven corporate ENRON-style thief got out of jail and managed to sue others for millions in damages for image slandering was right next to you at mcdonalds and 50k fell out of his pocket for you to pick up for no one to ever know....would you pick it up and run and give it to him?

this is all just basic stuff, get a clue naive retards, and smfd

or what if the Hamas kidnaps your favorite hamster and blackmails you into shitting in some old lady's mail box in order to get it back? There is 0 point in making up lalaland scenarios, we can only know for sure what we did and not what we will or would do.
Btw gratz on being such an awesome guy, if its you who is vouching for yourself its gotta be true.

lol rekrul rant always classic

dan the philosopher


edit: btw weren't you writing a book or something or thinking about it at one point? is that still going to happen?

i don't really understand the point of most of the last part of the post though....like does he think he's the only one to think about the relativity of morality?..

On August 29 2010 19:18 bigredhoss wrote: i don't really understand the point of most of the last part of the post though....like does he think he's the only one to think about the relativity of morality?..

its cheating unless he deserves it

rekrul do you naturally have a hyung personality or did Korea change you

On August 29 2010 19:18 bigredhoss wrote: i don't really understand the point of most of the last part of the post though....like does he think he's the only one to think about the relativity of morality?..

more like it's a big joke how these threads get blown up on here/2+2 wherever and everyone starts jumping on the bandwagon (this time anti-thor), when in fact lots of ppl in the thread (and 28309432890432 more in the poker world)HAVE cheated in many ways which is much worse than discussing stuff in a mere convo....and even if the bandwagoners have never cheated and r totally clean-there are infinite scenarios in which they would if given the chance

life is 1 huge lol!

On August 29 2010 23:19 Rekrul wrote: Show nested quote + On August 29 2010 19:18 bigredhoss wrote: i don't really understand the point of most of the last part of the post though....like does he think he's the only one to think about the relativity of morality?.. more like it's a big joke how these threads get blown up on here/2+2 wherever and everyone starts jumping on the bandwagon (this time anti-thor), when in fact lots of ppl in the thread (and 28309432890432 more in the poker world)HAVE cheated in many ways which is much worse than discussing stuff in a mere convo....and even if the bandwagoners have never cheated and r totally clean-there are infinite scenarios in which they would if given the chance life is 1 huge lol!

alright

so how about the book??

On August 29 2010 23:19 Rekrul wrote: Show nested quote + On August 29 2010 19:18 bigredhoss wrote: i don't really understand the point of most of the last part of the post though....like does he think he's the only one to think about the relativity of morality?.. more like it's a big joke how these threads get blown up on here/2+2 wherever and everyone starts jumping on the bandwagon (this time anti-thor), when in fact lots of ppl in the thread (and 28309432890432 more in the poker world)HAVE cheated in many ways which is much worse than discussing stuff in a mere convo....and even if the bandwagoners have never cheated and r totally clean-there are infinite scenarios in which they would if given the chance life is 1 huge lol!

lol are you implying that because id cheat at poker to save my mothers life i have no moral ground to look down upon/be upset with people who have cheated?

i may of misunderstood but if not thats ridiculous.

regardless of whether or not some of the people trying to act righteous have also cheated and are full of shit the known cheaters should be shitted on and should be punished.

On August 29 2010 23:39 Stim_Abuser wrote: Show nested quote + On August 29 2010 23:19 Rekrul wrote:   On August 29 2010 19:18 bigredhoss wrote: i don't really understand the point of most of the last part of the post though....like does he think he's the only one to think about the relativity of morality?.. more like it's a big joke how these threads get blown up on here/2+2 wherever and everyone starts jumping on the bandwagon (this time anti-thor), when in fact lots of ppl in the thread (and 28309432890432 more in the poker world)HAVE cheated in many ways which is much worse than discussing stuff in a mere convo....and even if the bandwagoners have never cheated and r totally clean-there are infinite scenarios in which they would if given the chance life is 1 huge lol! lol are you implying that because id cheat at poker to save my mothers life i have no moral ground to look down upon/be upset with people who have cheated? i may of misunderstood but if not thats ridiculous. regardless of whether or not some of the people trying to act righteous have also cheated and are full of shit the known cheaters should be shitted on and should be punished.

you know i'm not implying that lol, i like extreme metaphors though

and yes, i agree with u, but the fact about the poker world is there is absolutely no system or way to stop all the various forms of cheating and even when ppl do get caught they never get shitted on and punished, sure some examples are made of ppl (zeejustin, townsend, etc)...but they never really got punished, even they are both still sponsored pros and play on TV. in the poker world there is NO system of real punishment for cheating except when sites catch multi accounters in tournies and take their profits

the old me would have found this very sad and disgraceful but now i'm a jaded man so i just find it funny lol