Non-money Benefits of Poker

How has playing poker improve your life (money not being considered)?
has it helped you mature?
are you you more intelligent, developed new transferable skills, or just better off in any way because of poker?
not considering the money that you made, has playing poker been +EV for you?

I became sick paranoid that everyone is bluffing in real life.

IT MAKES ME SPECIAL

no. i'm looking forward to going back to school in sept. and giving a royal 'fuck you' to poker once i get into law

i've met much less people than i would have if i had a real job, i've really let my body go, and it's stressed the hell out of me

know Rounders inside out.

the benefits of this are obvious.

freedom

ive improved my real life emotional control a lot.

It was only after poker that I realized how people whine and complain about way too much.

made me see the importance of a dollar, and made me not overvalue it as well

On August 19 2010 13:56 FallinInLove wrote: I became sick paranoid that everyone is bluffing in real life.

ahahahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaah +1

it's taught me how to be content with undesirable outcomes

nope

taught me to read people better

taught me about the importance of thought process in making decisions

On August 19 2010 14:30 joLin wrote: ive improved my real life emotional control a lot.

+1.

Except I feel more like I'm emotionally numb a lot. "It's just variance". Better self esteem. Got in touch with some cool people.

maybe more than it has financially

oh actually i became slightly better at starcraft for some reason, i think it might be because i learned i have to actually think instead of copying some build like a fag.

On August 19 2010 16:14 EvilSky wrote: oh actually i became slightly better at starcraft for some reason, i think it might be because i learned i have to actually think instead of copying some build like a fag.

lol opposite for me. i think learning how to think for starcraft helped me when i started poker.

On August 19 2010 15:06 Raidern wrote: made me see the importance of a dollar, and made me not overvalue it as well

this

On August 19 2010 15:06 Raidern wrote: made me see the importance of a dollar, and made me not overvalue it as well

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL what?

It's made me completely lose any concept of the importance of a dollar. And it's made me happier person overall

yeah better decision making, better ability to understand how any given situation works. any aspiring poker player will sooner or later have to learn to become realistic in order to succeed, this helps in other areas as well

agree with Cosmo too, the importance of a dollar wtf.

poker also taught me that money wont guarantee you happiness, but the lack of it will almost certainly guarantee you unhappiness. unfair.

approaching decisions in everyday life w/ respect to ev

On August 19 2010 17:02 lachlan wrote: approaching decisions in everyday life w/ respect to ev

On August 19 2010 17:02 lachlan wrote: approaching decisions in everyday life w/ respect to ev

also this.

On August 19 2010 15:06 Raidern wrote: made me see the importance of a dollar, and made me not overvalue it as well

It's funny that my sig has basically been this since I joined <3

For me it's been the same as edzwoo with noticing people bitching more about shit, but it has also made me think a bit differently about most things. I think I was already prone to analyzing cause and effect of situations and poker just gave me that little mental nudge.

On August 19 2010 17:02 lachlan wrote: approaching decisions in everyday life w/ respect to ev

this

also made me semi outcasted from my family right now...whole thing about not accepting poker as a living and thinking i have a gambling problem etc etc

On August 19 2010 17:02 lachlan wrote: approaching decisions in everyday life w/ respect to ev

Well, dont most people normally evaluate their decisions when given two different options (especially in respect to money and work for example)?

people are very short sighted, results oriented and scared, so no.

On August 19 2010 18:44 Baal wrote: people are very short sighted, results oriented and scared, so no.

lol so true, results oriented people really make me wanna facepalm

Only non-money benefit I've found is that I've gained the ability to get shit on constantly and not care as much as a normal person would.

On August 19 2010 18:58 MiPwnYa wrote: Show nested quote + On August 19 2010 18:44 Baal wrote: people are very short sighted, results oriented and scared, so no. lol so true, results oriented people really make me wanna facepalm

I suck at poker but now I notice people are so ridicously result oriented, most can't even understand EV

i think most of you either havent polished the ability to remain truly stoic to bad outcomes out of our control (exhiliarate lol) or dont quite understand how fucking vital that is in life.

On August 19 2010 20:04 Baal wrote: i think most of you either havent polished the ability to remain truly stoic to bad outcomes out of our control (exhiliarate lol) or dont quite understand how fucking vital that is in life.

+ Show Spoiler +

poker continues to show me how important it is to strive for perfection and compete to be the best in every aspect of my life

Can't really find any "improvements", despite the life improvement that is a direct cause of having more freedom and money.

Actually I think it made me a bit lazy, phobic to work, and declined my maturation. Probably hurt my university studies as well.

You know how most people have a boss? Well, poker players don't.

On August 19 2010 20:14 [sK] wrote: poker continues to show me how important it is to strive for perfection and compete to be the best in every aspect of my life

lol that is absurd but whatev

On August 19 2010 14:10 Grindasaurus wrote: i've really let my body go

dont blame poker for being lazy

besides the friends ive gotten and all the nice things they've done for me.. poker has had done 0 good things for me in my life.. cept for the money.

i dont value money as much because of how easily it could be made playing poker, i think thats a benefit

when I read this title I compare it to Non-money Benefits of McDonalds or anything... only logical reason to WORK (and not play SC2 all day) is because we need money. Money makes the world go round, money money money... People say money can't buy happiness... but its a good place start.

On August 19 2010 17:02 lachlan wrote: approaching decisions in everyday life w/ respect to ev

http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/dan_gilbert_researches_happiness.html

a nice TED presentation of how people perceive the value of things. The guy talks about odds, perceive value of things, and how people act, how they make decisions. He points out the irrational/illogical aspect.

it allowed me to take a few years off before i studied for my degree. after leaving medicine...... i was not sure what i wanted to do and it led into the direction of finance and hopefully trading eventually.

taught me how hard it is to make money in the real world and that you have to beat off the competition. took me to the lowest of the lows near bankruptcy and i am glad that i had the experience of hitting rock bottom a few times as it has made me a stronger person.

gave me all the pocket money i needed in the world for those few years. let me take all the holidays i wanted and visit places that i could not have done otherwise as we never took holidays when i was growing up. met people i would not have otherwise met. learnt about my weakness' and strengths and had plenty of time to think about what kind of life i want to live in 10 years time.

It taught me that I could understand Romanian most of the time, without ever having studied it. That foreigners think that no one else understands their language, and will often be giant asses speaking it. I also enjoy chatting with people from a variety of countries.

Taught me: to expect the incredible, having been on the extreme ends of good and bad variance; not to count my chickens before they're hatched; to pretty much ignore day to day net worth as both unpredictable and meaningless.

It also made me carefully examine the republicans and decide that I did not want to support them ever again; unfortunately I feel the same way about the democrats

Habituated me to a strong level of cold-hearted logical analysis. I don't consider this a universally good thing though.

On August 20 2010 06:22 F4Zi wrote: it allowed me to take a few years off before i studied for my degree. after leaving medicine...... i was not sure what i wanted to do and it led into the direction of finance and hopefully trading eventually. taught me how hard it is to make money in the real world and that you have to beat off the competition took me to the lowest of the lows near bankruptcy and i am glad that i had the experience of hitting rock bottom a few times as it has made me a stronger person. gave me all the pocket money i needed in the world for those few years. let me take all the holidays i wanted and visit places that i could not have done otherwise as we never took holidays when i was growing up. met people i would not have otherwise met. learnt about my weakness' and strengths and had plenty of time to think about what kind of life i want to live in 10 years time.

Damn..a lot harder to make it in the UK than I thought..

^ lulz

i call down everyone now. street thugs, bank robbers, gang bangers. who ever...someones gotta be bluffing eventually

I gotta say, being a marginally successful grinder has been shit for my social life. Although I did meet a girl through playing with her on Stars, on the other hand, when you're a weird nerd, and girls ask you what you do, I used to be able to say "piano teacher" or "pianist" and that would score me some points. When you say "Oh, I play poker," they tend to start looking for the exit. At least, the ones that you'd be wise to want to have anything to do with.

@TalentedTom: I think there are two essential kinds of people say money can't buy you happiness. People with money who are just trying to patronizingly make you feel better that you don't have it, and people who can't get money, and that's just sour grapes. It's a fact that poverty will make you miserable, and the logical consequences of that are inescapable.

On August 21 2010 12:55 vltava wrote: @TalentedTom: I think there are two essential kinds of people say money can't buy you happiness. People with money who are just trying to patronizingly make you feel better that you don't have it, and people who can't get money, and that's just sour grapes. It's a fact that poverty will make you miserable, and the logical consequences of that are inescapable.

i thought Tom was trolling but you definitelly arent, jesus lololol how can somebody be this clueless srsly.

Baal, as usual, with the insult and no argument.

Not that I really care one way or the other whether you insult. I spend a lot of time on Pharyngula, where the insults fly freely, but people are expected to be able to form a coherent argument. (Hint: "I spell 'serious' with no vowels, therefore I am cool, therefore your argument is invalid" is not a valid syllogism.)

On August 20 2010 15:49 BigRed0000 wrote: Show nested quote + On August 20 2010 06:22 F4Zi wrote: it allowed me to take a few years off before i studied for my degree. after leaving medicine...... i was not sure what i wanted to do and it led into the direction of finance and hopefully trading eventually. taught me how hard it is to make money in the real world and that you have to beat off the competition took me to the lowest of the lows near bankruptcy and i am glad that i had the experience of hitting rock bottom a few times as it has made me a stronger person. gave me all the pocket money i needed in the world for those few years. let me take all the holidays i wanted and visit places that i could not have done otherwise as we never took holidays when i was growing up. met people i would not have otherwise met. learnt about my weakness' and strengths and had plenty of time to think about what kind of life i want to live in 10 years time. Damn..a lot harder to make it in the UK than I thought..

i meant as in being competitive in life. otherwise life is just too easy coasting in my environment as im pretty sure my parents would throw money at me.

On August 20 2010 15:49 BigRed0000 wrote: Show nested quote + On August 20 2010 06:22 F4Zi wrote: taught me how hard it is to make money in the real world and that you have to beat off the competition Damn..a lot harder to make it in the UK than I thought..

I lol'd

beating off is fun f4zi responding to it made me smile even more

i don't think that money buys happiness automatically, but no money causes unhappiness easily... you can consider that the same thing only inverse, but i just think money only gets you so far

On August 21 2010 14:13 Baal wrote: Show nested quote + On August 21 2010 12:55 vltava wrote: @TalentedTom: I think there are two essential kinds of people say money can't buy you happiness. People with money who are just trying to patronizingly make you feel better that you don't have it, and people who can't get money, and that's just sour grapes. It's a fact that poverty will make you miserable, and the logical consequences of that are inescapable. i thought Tom was trolling but you definitelly arent, jesus lololol how can somebody be this clueless srsly.

+1

The rich are maybe even more miserable than the poor. They spend their lives worried that their friends are toadies and their lovers gold diggers (which they often are); that they're going to be kidnapped, robbed, burglarized or made the victims of ID theft (all of which they sometimes are), that their relatives are just toadies also after their money. They're worried constantly about the economy turning on them and making them poor, about people suing them and making them poor. They isolate themselves in enclaves, often associate with only their own kind, often have bars on every window, are sometimes afraid to even leaves their mansions. People who envy and resent the rich and those who think being rich will make them happy are just being dumb. Happiness is an internal emotional state not something one can buy.

On August 21 2010 14:13 Baal wrote: Show nested quote + On August 21 2010 12:55 vltava wrote: @TalentedTom: I think there are two essential kinds of people say money can't buy you happiness. People with money who are just trying to patronizingly make you feel better that you don't have it, and people who can't get money, and that's just sour grapes. It's a fact that poverty will make you miserable, and the logical consequences of that are inescapable. i thought Tom was trolling but you definitelly arent, jesus lololol how can somebody be this clueless srsly.

Actually Baal although not entirely correct V does have a pretty strong argument.

Relevant source for my opinion on the matter: http://www.ted.com/talks/daniel_kahneman_the_riddle_of_experience_vs_memory.html

Key Points from the Researcher in the Video:

1. Happiness is too simple a definition. It's no longer useful.

2. Happiness should be broken down into the experiencing-self (moment to moment) and the remembering-self (what we remember of our life-story).

3. Money increases the happiness of the remembering-self exponentially. The remembering-self looks back with more satisfaction with their life situation based on their life story - the more money - the more happy they are with their life circumstances from the perspective of the remembering-self.

4. Money increases the happiness of the experiential-self up until 60k a year and after that it's a flat line and doesn't make people more happy on a moment-to-moment basis. So people who make over 60k a year don't get any happier in their daily lives or in their moment-to-moment experiences.

5. Lack of money absolutely does buy people misery. It won't make you more happy after 60k a year (in terms of the experiencing-self) but the lack of it will absolutely make you miserable. This is backed up by all other research on the matter.

6. This guys research findings are in the U.S. and are from a sample size of 700k people.

So yes Baal you're dead wrong to say that money doesn't effect happiness. The lack of money causes problems and stresses that buy people misery. So maybe next time you insult someone openly you should actually know what you're talking about and back it up with good research sources rather than just a bullshit generalized opinion that you "heard somewhere" and took as truth because it fit into the schema you already believed on the subject.

On August 21 2010 22:15 Snaggle wrote: Show nested quote + On August 21 2010 14:13 Baal wrote:   On August 21 2010 12:55 vltava wrote: @TalentedTom: I think there are two essential kinds of people say money can't buy you happiness. People with money who are just trying to patronizingly make you feel better that you don't have it, and people who can't get money, and that's just sour grapes. It's a fact that poverty will make you miserable, and the logical consequences of that are inescapable. i thought Tom was trolling but you definitelly arent, jesus lololol how can somebody be this clueless srsly. +1 The rich are maybe even more miserable than the poor. They spend their lives worried that their friends are toadies and their lovers gold diggers (which they often are); that they're going to be kidnapped, robbed, burglarized or made the victims of ID theft (all of which they sometimes are), that their relatives are just toadies also after their money. They're worried constantly about the economy turning on them and making them poor, about people suing them and making them poor. They isolate themselves in enclaves, often associate with only their own kind, often have bars on every window, are sometimes afraid to even leaves their mansions. People who envy and resent the rich and those who think being rich will make them happy are just being dumb. Happiness is an internal emotional state not something one can buy.

This is just horribly inaccurate. Generally with the exception of lottery winners, professional athletes, and rock/film stars people who earn a lot of money know how to manage money very well. They don't invest 100% of their assets in the market and spend the rest of their life worrying about it. They put aside enough that their lifestyle is protected regardless of what happens in the future. Then they use the rest of their capital to create more capital because they enjoy what they do. Wealthy people also aren't any more paranoid about bad things happening to them than the poor. Lots of bad things can happen to poor people too you know. The difference is when bad things happen to poor people they can't afford most of the easier solutions that would make their lives less stressful.

The fact that you seriously believe people who don't know where their next meal is coming from are equally as happy as people who are vastly wealthy is moronic to say the least. Money doesn't equal happiness, but it strongly effects peoples' happiness until you get to a certain threshold. This has been shown by all research on the subject. People in poverty do suffer. Saying "just internalize happiness" doesn't help people who are stressed about making rent on a daily basis or making choices between heat or electricity. Idiot.

There are a good number of rich people on this forum, why don't you ask them if all this stuff you made up about them actually applies to them?

/thread

some new friendships.

my #1 benefit from poker is freedom, however I have freedom because of poker money so ~_~

On August 19 2010 16:54 Stygg wrote: yeah better decision making, better ability to understand how any given situation works. any aspiring poker player will sooner or later have to learn to become realistic in order to succeed, this helps in other areas as well agree with Cosmo too, the importance of a dollar wtf. poker also taught me that money wont guarantee you happiness, but the lack of it will almost certainly guarantee you unhappiness. unfair.

So what you're tryin to say is Havin money isn't eyeethang, not havin it eeeez

On August 19 2010 18:44 Baal wrote: people are very short sighted, results oriented and scared, so no.

I've said by playing poker I've noticed people complain too much in life, but this probably covers a much broader scope of what I was trying to say. People are SOOOOO results oriented in everyday real life.

Some thoughts.... I think Snaggle is right as a whole; there are always exceptions, and the rich common man is going to be happier than the poor common man, and by common I mean the Philistine type of person. From my perspective, the more you want, the lesser you are. If you are rich and intelligent, you can pursue what you want in life (and what you want to give to the world) without worrying about being able to eat and having a roof over your head, that covers everything needed and is evidently a solid headstart re: being happy. But to say that money brings happiness in itself is just silly... the more we have of any thing, the more we want and the yearning for more has never brought happiness, desiring things outside of ourselves are nothing short of a recipe for catastrophe and a miserable existence. Having the courage to need little will make you happy no matter what your external circumstances are though, and in some cases, as I have observed, even if you can't properly feed yourself. As a general rule I would say that a creative life in poverty > a rich life in self-indulgence and as long as the basic needs are covered, the one who leads the most fulfilling life is going to be the happier, and while money might influence this it is definitely not that great a factor to put in consideration. The common rich man is unable to reach past a certain level of happiness because he's been distracted by the world's offerings all his life,he's like a blind man in a maze where happiness is at the other side. He cannot help but seek it outside himself and is therefore disadvantaged when compared with the poor and wise man who seeks nothing out of himself and desires very little, which is a trait more often seen in poor people than rich ones. The common rich man has become disabled in some way, devoid of the ability to obtain satisfaction from himself with intellect. I guess to sum it up, the materially poor who is rich internally is a happier individual, and some might even choose to live in poverty because it is easier to be happy this way.

We could say that freedom is the overall goal of everyone and the majority would agree I would think, and since freedom (always internal since there is no real objective and external freedom offered to us) is secured not by the fulfilling of desires but by the removal (or control) of desires [Epictetus], I believe the poor to be at an advantage here. Marcus Aurelius, the greatest Roman emperor, once said "even in a palace it is possible to live well", I think this one sentence speaks well of our self-indulgence, and we poker players are perhaps capable of relating to him more closely than most because we have a lot of temptations since more is in our grasp that comes with having money, and if we were to imitate him in his wise ways we would choose to be living more of an ascetic life on purpose. How many of us would or could, even if all the great men would agree that it is indeed the way to freedom and real happiness, though?

when I think people are lying in real life...I say I call...

i crave it... and it satisfies my addiction. and makes me become "not bored".