AQs TPTK in 3bet pot multiway, review?

Villain in this case is playing 25/22 with a 3bet of 8% over a sample of ~320 hands. Those 8% is a little bit misleading though since he never 3bet from any position but the blinds where he 3bets 11%. I have no reads on villains besides the stats (they're datamined). I think the flatcall pre is pretty standard vs this type of villain and from there the hand pretty much plays itself. Am i wrong in any of this or is this completely standard?

Submitted by : timgud

***** Hand History for Game 3476060687 ***** (Prima)
$100.00 USD NL Texas Holdem - Monday, August 16, 06:11:25 ET 2010
Table Frozen Over 2 (Real Money)
Seat 5 is the button
Seat 1: pienio666 ( $105.50 USD )
Seat 2: Stenzel ( $86.98 USD )
Seat 3: Hero ( $110.00 USD )
Seat 4: Duque_copas ( $106.98 USD )
Seat 5: Lymphoma- ( $115.18 USD )
Seat 6: darnaudov ( $100.50 USD )
darnaudov posts small blind [$0.50 USD].
pienio666 posts big blind [$1.00 USD].

Holecards
   
Stenzel folds
Hero raises [$3.50 USD]
Duque_copas calls [$3.50 USD]
Lymphoma- folds
darnaudov folds
pienio666 raises [$14.00 USD]
Hero calls [$11.50 USD]
Duque_copas calls [$11.50 USD]

Flop (Pot : $44.50)

   
pienio666 bets [$23.00 USD]
Hero calls [$23.00 USD]
Duque_copas folds

Turn (Pot : $90.50)

   
pienio666 bets [$66.50 USD]
Hero calls [$66.50 USD]

River (Pot : $223.50)

   

Seems fine to me.

Fold preflop, AQs is no good here

On August 17 2010 15:04 TalentedTom wrote: Fold preflop, AQs is no good here

Really? Folding was a throught that went through my head but considering he's so 3bethappy don't you think a flatcall preflop is justified in this spot? What hands am i flatcalling in position here if i'm folding AQs?

AK

On August 17 2010 16:34 TalentedTom wrote: AK

Just AK? Don't you think you could make a case for flatcalling JJ, and QQ here as well?

On August 17 2010 16:38 timgud wrote: Show nested quote + On August 17 2010 16:34 TalentedTom wrote: AK Just AK? Don't you think you could make a case for flatcalling JJ, and QQ here as well?

Playing JJ in a 3bet pot is an absolute nightmare imo

what's the appropriate defense against 3betting then? Excessive 4-betting or more 3betting yourself? Calling w/ suited connectors or other non-dominated shit?

against excessive 3 betting you play them before the flop not on the flop unless you got a monster -_-. I mean if i have learn something threw my ups and downs between 100NL and 200NL is that most people that 3bet in 100NL have huge hands they mostly never bluffing that's why is a fold and tom said it. But against excessive 3bettings if just good to 4bet and show strength if you get shove depends on he's shoving range you think you can be ahead off. But imo excessive 3 betters if better to play them before flop cause in flop you mostly never going to know if your ahead on behind imo.

On August 17 2010 16:40 palak wrote: Show nested quote + On August 17 2010 16:38 timgud wrote:   On August 17 2010 16:34 TalentedTom wrote: AK Just AK? Don't you think you could make a case for flatcalling JJ, and QQ here as well? Playing JJ in a 3bet pot is an absolute nightmare imo

?

In the year of the one armed Panda with a drinking disorder there once was a homosexual beaver with a taste for honey who said among other wise things that; "When the queen is suited and next to an Ace, the Kings shall be angry of this betrayal and demand a threesome with the wise lady of the evening while stating the no eye contact of crossing of swords would be allowed". Meanwhile the shame will eat the queen like a hungry leprechaun consumes the dinner served by Ziggy Stardust in his home in space. Thus blessed are the folding grinders, for heaven will laugh in their face. And on the day of judgement they will drink various soft drinks of questionable quality.

On August 18 2010 10:05 DustySwedeDude wrote: In the year of the one armed Panda with a drinking disorder there once was a homosexual beaver with a taste for honey who said among other wise things that; "When the queen is suited and next to an Ace, the Kings shall be angry of this betrayal and demand a threesome with the wise lady of the evening while stating the no eye contact of crossing of swords would be allowed". Meanwhile the shame will eat the queen like a hungry leprechaun consumes the dinner served by Ziggy Stardust in his home in space. Thus blessed are the folding grinders, for heaven will laugh in their face. And on the day of judgement they will drink various soft drinks of questionable quality.

I love you man

no stat is going to tell you anything about this situation, even if his squeeze % was like 15 it still doesn't mean he does it vs utg light

and i would fold turn as played

On August 18 2010 08:54 SakiSaki wrote: Show nested quote + On August 17 2010 16:40 palak wrote:   On August 17 2010 16:38 timgud wrote:   On August 17 2010 16:34 TalentedTom wrote: AK Just AK? Don't you think you could make a case for flatcalling JJ, and QQ here as well? Playing JJ in a 3bet pot is an absolute nightmare imo ?

+1, I am also confused

i always hate JJ in 3bet pots because at 1/2, .5/1 against a lot of regish types ur not going to get the money in good, at the best you are flipping on the flop against overs+fd and ppl arn't aggro to the point that they will barrel off with worse. So most of the time from my experience of it there is no benefit to calling JJ since ppl usually cbet/give up with any hand i beat or barrel off when i'm behind but its always hard to convince myself to fold an overpair....;granted i got owned by 45 yesterday in a 3bet pot but crap like that pretty much never happens. Basically JJ for me pretty much either costs me a buyin or wins me a much smaller pot which I would have won w/ any pair.

edit; nightmare may have been strong wording, it's more I doubt ppl at 100nl or 200nl will not show as much of a profit as they think they will

On August 17 2010 16:34 TalentedTom wrote: AK

You serious? Isnt better to 4b/call AK here? This hand seems like std play for me, but you confused me.

His 3bet range is even wider than his stats shows because its a squeeze, not ? 4bet/call w AQs cant be bad either.

i think 4b calling with AQ here is horribad.

why ?
He is 3beting a lot, so he has to fold to a lot of our 4bets. If he doesnt, we still have like 35%. Plus for time to time, he will 5bet bluff.

On August 18 2010 14:58 maxousek wrote: why ? He is 3beting a lot, so he has to fold to a lot of our 4bets. If he doesnt, we still have like 35%. Plus for time to time, he will 5bet bluff.

1. send money to ps.com
2. 4b/call AQs
3. ???
4. profit

On August 18 2010 12:07 palak wrote: i always hate JJ in 3bet pots because at 1/2, .5/1 against a lot of regish types ur not going to get the money in good, at the best you are flipping on the flop against overs+fd and ppl arn't aggro to the point that they will barrel off with worse. So most of the time from my experience of it there is no benefit to calling JJ since ppl usually cbet/give up with any hand i beat or barrel off when i'm behind but its always hard to convince myself to fold an overpair....;granted i got owned by 45 yesterday in a 3bet pot but crap like that pretty much never happens. Basically JJ for me pretty much either costs me a buyin or wins me a much smaller pot which I would have won w/ any pair. edit; nightmare may have been strong wording, it's more I doubt ppl at 100nl or 200nl will show as much of a profit as they think they will

agree, 1/2 is nitty as fuck

Dog, this hand is from Prima.

i know but i want ur monies

I played with this guy quite a lot and I would either

a) 4b/call pf
b) raise and commit on the flop
c) play it the same as op,

depending on gameflow and latest history between us,

now tell me if and why Im a retard

My read on him that he is pretty aggro and able to barrel some. OT: Also since he was at the tables all the time I found out that he's from a town located at Siberia :D

raise - fold / call the shove on the flop - up to your mood ... I don't see what you are trying to achieve with calls.. now that you called turn you have to call river if he'd ever bet... but you made mistake on flop by making the call.

over all it feels like you don't know what to do.

lol @ ^

eh multiway. i change my mind lol
yeah aq even suited is quite terrible to play in these spots

On August 18 2010 17:39 crazybitch wrote: raise - fold / call the shove on the flop - up to your mood ... I don't see what you are trying to achieve with calls.. now that you called turn you have to call river if he'd ever bet... but you made mistake on flop by making the call. over all it feels like you don't know what to do.

Eh??

You mean raise flop and then decide to fold/call shove depending on your mode??

Obviously if he decides to call him down its because he wants to let him barrel with air(or maybe KQ or JJ)

And also you are obviously wrong with this traditional and bad statement that after he calls turn he cant fold the river lol.

No offence mate, but I have to strongly dissagree to say the least...

Btw. what's your Czech nickname/name, do we know each other?

On August 18 2010 18:41 bohus04 wrote: Show nested quote + On August 18 2010 17:39 crazybitch wrote: raise - fold / call the shove on the flop - up to your mood ... I don't see what you are trying to achieve with calls.. now that you called turn you have to call river if he'd ever bet... but you made mistake on flop by making the call. over all it feels like you don't know what to do. Btw. what's your Czech nickname/name, do we know each other?

dante obv

On August 18 2010 17:39 crazybitch wrote: raise - fold / call the shove on the flop - up to your mood ... I don't see what you are trying to achieve with calls.. now that you called turn you have to call river if he'd ever bet... but you made mistake on flop by making the call. over all it feels like you don't know what to do.

seems like you have a very unique approach to the game

http://www.liquidpoker.net/h/830568

On August 18 2010 17:39 crazybitch wrote: raise - fold / call the shove on the flop - up to your mood ... I don't see what you are trying to achieve with calls.. now that you called turn you have to call river if he'd ever bet... but you made mistake on flop by making the call. over all it feels like you don't know what to do.

ban asap?

On August 18 2010 18:41 bohus04 wrote: Obviously if he decides to call him down its because he wants to let him barrel with air(or maybe KQ or JJ) And also you are obviously wrong with this traditional and bad statement that after he calls turn he cant fold the river lol.

first you say he calls him down to catch bluffs, then say he can fold river? Do you see where that logic goes wrong? If you call 2 streets to catch bluff, you cannot all of sudden decide to fold the river...

So as I said, raise the flop take the initiative from him as raise also helps you in decision making on later streets, b/c what happens on turn will be guided by actions on flop. Calling achieve nothing, raising helps a lot.

Poker is easy. Wtf that random swede donk comment above - ban swedes instead?. You should smoke more.

Ps. I can read souls.

On August 18 2010 18:53 bigredhoss wrote: seems like you have a very unique approach to the game http://www.liquidpoker.net/h/830568

the better you are as a poker player, more your cards will hold. ;-)

crazybitch you shouldnt try to write advice in midstakes forum when you pay micros yourself, and play micros bad at that.

Your advice in this thread shows you have no clue what you are talking about.

There is no play on the river btw, its already all in on turn.

On August 19 2010 08:36 Balzamon wrote: crazybitch you shouldnt try to write advice in midstakes forum when you pay micros yourself, and play micros bad at that. Your advice in this thread shows you have no clue what you are talking about. There is no play on the river btw, its already all in on turn.

This, and to OP, I think flatting here is fine if you have seen him squeese EP-raise before. He is probably the type of guy who 3-bet a ton in sb/bb against btn/co, which makes this stat a bit skewed, and with that in mind it is probably a fold.

My point is that HUD-statistics could be pretty unreliable unless you have them in more specific terms. Someone who 3 bets 15 % might only 3-bet UTGr with 4 % from blinds for example.

On August 19 2010 04:20 crazybitch wrote: Show nested quote + On August 18 2010 18:53 bigredhoss wrote: seems like you have a very unique approach to the game http://www.liquidpoker.net/h/830568 the better you are as a poker player, more your cards will hold. ;-)

"first I'm like... nice hand I raise... then I'm like wtf dude wtf, I reraise... then more like,..oh well this is fucked up already,...I call.
Flop is more like,... Lets close my eyes and pray for runner runner suckout even tho' it's gay.."

whoa that's a lot of replies...

there are no draws. I think you can fold turn vs a standard hudbotting reg.

The problem with this hand stems from your perception of his preflop 3bet range. He has 3 bet from the blinds a few times and it gives his 3 bet % 11 % over 320 hands... so what? That information doesn't tell us the whole story here.

That 11% is going to be a far different number when he is squeezing an utg+1 from the blinds. It could be wider than 11% based on game flow, or more likely it could be ridiculously narrow. You have to know your player here.

And yeah if you call preflop than its pretty lol get it in one way or another with this flop. If you feel dirty about getting it in with this flop then please realize that your preflop call was wrong.

On August 19 2010 04:15 crazybitch wrote: Show nested quote + On August 18 2010 18:41 bohus04 wrote: Obviously if he decides to call him down its because he wants to let him barrel with air(or maybe KQ or JJ) And also you are obviously wrong with this traditional and bad statement that after he calls turn he cant fold the river lol. first you say he calls him down to catch bluffs, then say he can fold river? Do you see where that logic goes wrong? If you call 2 streets to catch bluff, you cannot all of sudden decide to fold the river... So as I said, raise the flop take the initiative from him as raise also helps you in decision making on later streets, b/c what happens on turn will be guided by actions on flop. Calling achieve nothing, raising helps a lot.

Sorry but you didint get it at all Just one small hint, say you have a player who might fire 2 barrels but never 3, you still cannot fold the river right? (Also note that my comment about calling turn/fold river was generaly speaking not to the actual hand...)

And raising yeah, so you will raise him to +- $60 and then decide... well LOL

well you cant fold the river when u r all in on the turn