Just checking

Assuming that this is a retarded post but started thinking about it. Late day 1b of Unibet open, about 100 players out of 230ish starting left in the tournament. 20k is average.

Blinds are 200/400 w/ 50 ante. I have 30k or so, I open to 1200 UTG and I've been moderatly active. Some guy who's a PS pro from Holland who apparently won EPT monte carlo or something ships 8k or so from mp and gets called fast (within maybe 3 secounds) by some guy from germany who looks like he's 12, seems to be new to live poker (nervous and shit) and has been playing fairly aggro (not loose, but when he plays something he reraises). He's been trappy post flop. He covers me. Back too me. Just under 30k to ship, 7k to call and there's already 17 or so in the pot. The monte carlo guy has been active but not crazy.

Now what?

Maybe you could start by telling us your cards?

On August 07 2010 09:35 Jun wrote: Maybe you could start by telling us your cards?

he is swedish

On August 07 2010 09:35 Jun wrote: Maybe you could start by telling us your cards?

this wouldn't be a thread if he knew his cards

He's Scandinavian, so his UTG open range is 32o-98s.

LOL

shove obv

snap shove. unless you have a good hand then just muck it

oh sry, I had KK.

haha nice

On August 08 2010 05:30 DustySwedeDude wrote: oh sry, I had KK.

you didnt fold did you...?

What can you do but ship?

On August 08 2010 08 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting              08 2010 08      end_of_the_skype_highlighting:26 [GiTM]-Ace wrote: Show nested quote + On August 08 2010 05:30 DustySwedeDude wrote: oh sry, I had KK. you didnt fold did you...?

No obviously not, but the common way of looking at it seems to be that I probably could if I actually played really good, but that in the moment pretty much no one would.

I thought for like 20 seconds though.

For that to make sense you have to know that he never does it with anything other than AA, right?

If we are in the mp guy's place, do we flat AQs? AK? 99-QQ? Which of these do we flat to fold if someone comes over the top?

I'm +chipev if he has QQ+ in his range and slightlyish neg if he only has KK+. Considering donkament life I think I need to feel that he has QQ+ at least and something stupid some %, and considering I know he's not a nit and not very good I feel that it's probably a fold but "logic" and the fact that my live reads tends to be less then reliable states that it seems weird for me to put someone on such a small range.

wow that's a shitty spot. That call obviously means he has something big, but it could possibly mean he wants you in the hand.
So you're really looking at just QQ KK AA, don't know how he can call with anything less than that.

I doubt QQ is just calling here so I'd say he's got KK+ more often than not

Thanks Dusty.
So a competent player never calls 8K shove at this spot intending to fold to a re-shove by someone who covers him? What would the stack size be for this to make sense?

I mean if I am in this guy's place and have 99, TT or AQs I would not know what to do with 80-100 BB stack.

I can ABSOLUTELY see him calling with other hands then kk+. I think this is a shove for sure.

would AA really call "in 3 seconds"? i mean wouldn't he hollywood a little pretending it's a tough call, esp. knowing UTG opened. he has to figure UTG has a hand. imo most players with AA in a nervous young rookie's hand don't call in 3 seconds in this spot.

idk, a lot of these dynamics, esp. live, get lost in forum posts obviously. it's all about how you feel and what your first instinct was. but going only from what you wrote, i wouldn't fold here.

Well AA *could* call in three seconds, since obviously he had AA or this wouldn't be a thread, but I still think it's a ship. Even if his range is QQ-AA this is +EV since it's not just 1:1 on his money, and say he has something else 10% of the time, then he's a solid favorite.

i like slow playing and turning my hand into a bluff here if i think he has QQ+

On August 11 2010 10:57 vltava wrote: Well AA *could* call in three seconds, since obviously he had AA or this wouldn't be a thread, but I still think it's a ship. Even if his range is QQ-AA this is +EV since it's not just 1:1 on his money, and say he has something else 10% of the time, then he's a solid favorite.

Yea I guess, but isn't that such a small edge that I should pass it up anyway considering how the field sucks ass?

I don't think it's a really small edge with the shit ton of dead money that's in the pot, plus the fact that AK has got to be part of his range a significant percentage of the time, and whether he calls or folds AK to a shove, you're happy. But if you think the field is THAT soft, you're better qualified to make that judgment than I.

can't he have something like TT here?

he is shoving ak/qq 100% of the time imo but i wouldnt fold kk just because i have kk and he can be doing sth stupid

as far as i know that dutch guy is a big nit

like unbelievable

Seriously, I think this hand plays itself.. Judging by the stacks and how deep we are, I guess it's possible to fold, but I ship it in every time anyway just because they can have AK/QQ and maybe JJ if they're bad as often as they have AA. Don't overthink it, KK is too good to fold imo.

If he had shoved I'd obviously snap call but there's no way amyone has AK here enough to consider that.

What about card removal? Does the Dutch pro have AK often enough that it affects card combinations for the cold-caller's range? I'm inclined to think so.

LOL call in 3 seconds.

minraise, call all in. if you min raise and he calls, just insta ship any flop.

and nervous guy has 99-JJ , AJ or AQ, right?

instaccs a 3b with no play. this looks like aces. what the hell else could it be but aces?

like, if he has AK he would prolly take on a defeated air and jackoff for 5 minutes and then fold.

if he has QQ he has to think. nobody snap coldcalls QQ without alot of foresight and, more to the point, to do so would still be monumentally stupid in the vast majority of cases. you just would have seen something in him to indicate that level of intelligence, it's impossible to not see such a thing. with QQ and foresight and anticipation, it's still really difficult to not take 30 seconds here. QQ here is probably a 2 minute decision for nearly all players.

it's not that he coldcalled. it's that he did it in 3 seconds. this motherfucker didn't even look at you or the 3bettor. like, a total drooler with a messy stack and no concept of anything and no respect for you or the other guy might do that with QQ.

he is new. he is trappy post, so why can't he be trappy pre? has AA, doesn't care what anyone else has, instacalls because he doesn't want people to be looking at him. it looks different from anything else he's ever done pre cuz like it's hard to be dealt AA.

what is the intent behind the coldcall? he's a person of average to above-average intelligence. i think he's doing it so that he doesn't draw attention to himself.

has a good amount of chips and is happy. raise, reraise. AA. instaccs to mix it up.

maybe you can call and resolve to call one and only one tiny bet but i like folding. i started thinking about this and was like, LOL aces, 60%? the more that i think about it i go to like, 70%, 80% and now i'm like, that's enough. fold it face up.

motherfucker called in 3 seconds.

or you could just ship your 80x cuz it's kings and kings are sposed to ship.

call and do what? jam into minimum 60% aces? fuck that shit. fold.

i must play a different game than you guys, retard pro shoves 20bb i snap JJ faster than 3 seconds on villains spot

Well at least you'd think about raising, no?

calling looks stronger, easier to get other ppl off AK/AQ/QQ(?)/KK(???)

So out of curiosity, what ended up happening? I'm assuming you shipped here and he snapcalled with aces, otherwise you would have been like "ya that was sick, lol" and never made this thread.

On September 05 2010 21:44 offsuit wrote: So out of curiosity, what ended up happening? I'm assuming you shipped here and he snapcalled with aces, otherwise you would have been like "ya that was sick, lol" and never made this thread.

yea. Was considering it for a while but the it was early in the morning and I had play all day and was weird in my head so ended up shipping and he snaps and I'm just getting up from my seat while they run up a 8 high board and then I go up to my room not getting any from the girl I brought since she had already got to sleep. Really annoying hand.