in between 2 nits

I don't have my hud running but both guys seem nitty esp TylluK who is to my right and who's nit status is more important in this hand imo. He's a short stacker who has doubled up I believe.

Submitted by : Steal City

PokerStars Game #35635773: Holdem No Limit ($10/$20 USD) - 2010/05/01 9:37:15 ET
Table Isabella II 6-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: MuckeDBoY ($1000 in chips)
Seat 2: TyIIuK ($785 in chips)
Seat 3: Hero ($1174 in chips)
Seat 4: HAYLEYJAY33 ($1010 in chips)
Seat 5: amazingoid ($1957 in chips)
Seat 6: isachris72 ($945 in chips)
HAYLEYJAY33: posts small blind $10
amazingoid: posts big blind $20

Holecards
Dealt to Hero
isachris72: folds
MuckeDBoY: folds
TyIIuK: raises $30 to $50
Hero: calls $50
HAYLEYJAY33: calls $40
amazingoid: folds

Flop (Pot : $170.00)

   
HAYLEYJAY33: checks
TyIIuK: bets $90
Hero: calls $90
HAYLEYJAY33: calls $90

Turn (Pot : $440.00)

   
HAYLEYJAY33: checks
TyIIuK: checks
Hero: checks

River (Pot : $440.00)

   

my god man, whats with the flop call ?

bump

On May 01 2010 10:16 EvilSky wrote: my god man, whats with the flop call ?

you are saying that because turn came a club

by in for 2000$ you nit!

On May 01 2010 22:43 royalsu wrote: by in for 2000$ you nit!

i was about to say... what's with the stack sizes :o

fold to anything >250 if hayley bets
i don't see tylluk betting here often but i'm prolly calling if he does

bet 160ish if checked to

maybe it's 20-50bb table :o, most players have around that range.

On May 01 2010 21:04 HeRoS)eNGagE wrote: Show nested quote + On May 01 2010 10:16 EvilSky wrote: my god man, whats with the flop call ? you are saying that because turn came a club

no im not, and besides there are more bad cards for us.

Raise flop is easier and you'll stack any good ace and probably flush draws.Although, it's important to call sometimes too, especially if people pays attention. River I think is extremely player/timing dependant as always but I'd go with a small bet and hope that ppl thinks you can valuebet worse then whatever the crap they have.

On May 02 2010 05:41 DustySwedeDude wrote: Raise flop is easier and you'll stack any good ace and probably flush draws.Although, it's important to call sometimes too, especially if people pays attention. River I think is extremely player/timing dependant as always but I'd go with a small bet and hope that ppl thinks you can valuebet worse then whatever the crap they have.

yes it's a 20-50BB table

I'm pretty certain, the SB is gonna fold all ace hands he can show up with if I raise here, so if i raise this flop I only lose money too him. Also I think the CO here, if I raise him he's not going to "stack off with any ace" I think that's a terrible assessment because my range is so strong given that I am sandwiched. I'm also flatting a lot of draws and very likely combo draws because of the SB and the stack sizes. I'm not saying I'm flatting flop here for balance. I think the rise ability to get paid off (remember we're short) is much greater if I flat than the loss in value of giving a free card.... remember these are nits... but that is just my feeling, it may be wrong and would be open to suggestions for raising but I'd like someone to present an argument other than set on drawy board = raise.

I also think dusty is pretty wrong that I'll stack flush draws vs nits, when people will know they obv have no fold equity against me if i raise this flop (given the stack sizes and being sandwiched) any raise is kind of a committing raise and it's basically like an overbet shove... they're not calling off a FD unless they have a combo draw... in which case they are making at most a minor mistake if they could see my cards.

Finally, fira do you fold to a c/r on river after u bet 160 which screams "i don't have a flush and i'm not committed"

also fold to anything the SB bets over 250 you say... that seems very nitty since the turn was checked through but idk... it's a tough spot. Agreed to call anything CO bets as long as it's not an overbet and if so tank.

I don't think 160 screams "I don't have a flush," unless you can never have a flush after checking the turn and they know this

because I would bet 160 here with a flush as well, as a bluff induction bet, and to maybe get value from AK or random 2pairs

if you can never have a flush and they know this and are good enough to exploit this, just check it down

why not c/r flop? its not like a nit is going to barrel multiple streets or call a river bet with worse than an ace if turn chks thru

On May 03 2010 03:58 n0rthf4ce wrote: why not c/r flop? its not like a nit is going to barrel multiple streets or call a river bet with worse than an ace if turn chks thru

yea i was hoping to check raise flop but i still haven't found a way to do that on the button yet.

Maybe, you can tell me!

bet turn for deception

On May 03 2010 10:12 NMcNasty wrote: bet turn for deception

BAN

i'm repping a flush but i have a set... really deceptive

On May 03 2010 10:12 NMcNasty wrote: bet turn for deception

bet turn for range merge / value, if the only hand we ever bet teh turn with is a flush there is a problem with our range

range merging is very important against random retarded shortstackers

On May 03 2010 09:47 Steal City wrote: Show nested quote + On May 03 2010 03:58 n0rthf4ce wrote: why not c/r flop? its not like a nit is going to barrel multiple streets or call a river bet with worse than an ace if turn chks thru yea i was hoping to check raise flop but i still haven't found a way to do that on the button yet. Maybe, you can tell me!

raise flop? :/

On May 04 2010 03:06 Rekrul wrote: range merging is very important against random retarded shortstackers

especially against ppl i don't have much history against+++


also:
sarcastic Rekrul >>>> troll Rekrul

but i can't give u too much credit, since most people here are retards trolling by accident and i'm pretty sure that's the only reason why u ddin't troll ;p

On May 04 2010 00:20 TalentedTom wrote: Show nested quote + On May 03 2010 10:12 NMcNasty wrote: bet turn for deception bet turn for range merge / value, if the only hand we ever bet teh turn with is a flush there is a problem with our range

logic fail, you do realize that if we don't bet the turn with a set that doesn't mean we're only betting with a flush

On May 04 2010 11:52 Steal City wrote: Show nested quote + On May 04 2010 03:06 Rekrul wrote: range merging is very important against random retarded shortstackers especially against ppl i don't have much history against+++

then flatting the flop is bad, assuming gutshot will also slow the action (2/3/club) this means 33%+ of turns will shut down the action. if range balancing dosnt matter + you have no history then slowplaying this flop is not optimal

should we play a game theoretical optimal strategy vs these nits or try to increase the chance of getting 1 more bet in since they're shallow anyway?

On May 04 2010 21:13 Steal City wrote: should we play a game theoretical optimal strategy vs these nits or try to increase the chance of getting 1 more bet in since they're shallow anyway?

how are we going to get 1 more bet if they dont have shit, not like theyre gonna bluff. the only way ur gonna get any more money is to just follow the basic principle of getting enough money in before a scare card hits, and thats just simply raising flop.

On May 04 2010 22:12 n0rthf4ce wrote: Show nested quote + On May 04 2010 21:13 Steal City wrote: should we play a game theoretical optimal strategy vs these nits or try to increase the chance of getting 1 more bet in since they're shallow anyway? how are we going to get 1 more bet if they dont have shit, not like theyre gonna bluff. the only way ur gonna get any more money is to just follow the basic principle of getting enough money in before a scare card hits, and thats just simply raising flop.

yeah this id also raise the flop, since when did 40bb poker get so complicated

but Donald,

how can he put u on a set...

if you bet the turn

On May 05 2010 10:16 NMcNasty wrote: but Donald, how can he put u on a set... if you bet the turn

if he puts me on a flush, what's the difference

in all seriousness bet turn, Ace with a club or pair with a club is a much larger part of villains ranges than a flush. If you're not getting value you're protecting you're hand. There's almost no chance of a bluff checkraise and villains probably wont shove over with small flushes either, so there's very little downside to betting.

Check behind if called. As played bet/fold all day even vs nits, this is 5/10.

On May 05 2010 10:30 NMcNasty wrote: in all seriousness bet turn, Ace with a club or pair with a club is a much larger part of villains ranges than a flush. If you're not getting value you're protecting you're hand. There's almost no chance of a bluff checkraise and villains probably wont shove over with small flushes either, so there's very little downside to betting. Check behind if called. As played bet/fold all day even vs nits, this is 5/10.

its 10/20 hes only like 40bbs deep with the tyullk guy

ah stack sizes made it look like 5/10 for a sec, still bet.

im on the obvious raise train, if nits don't have an A they will just shut down on turn, if they have it its much more easy to stack them on the flop

people stacks off lighter when stacks are 50bb deep... obviously...

I don't think I'd ever do anything else than raise flop here

On May 06 2010 00:47 Fayth wrote: people stacks off lighter when stacks are 50bb deep... obviously... I don't think I'd ever do anything else than raise flop here

Don't know why this hand would be 'complicated' at all :/.

you think that because turn came a club

yea i have to check raise flop but i still haven't found a way to do that on the button yet.

i think you are the one who can tell me!

Bet like $150-250 on river if checked to. Fold to potsize / overbets from either player. Flat call anything else from one player. Don't overcall a bet & a call unless they bet some retardedly small amount.

But I don't ever get into this spot... this is a spot where I always raise the flop with your particular hand. And if I don't raise flop I'll usually bet this turn when checked to. I only lean towards flatting these spots if a.) I'm heads-up in position and b.) the effective stacks are ~50bbs or less.

Oh wtf this is 10/20... this game looks like it's playing like 5/10

I will raise flop 100%

as played I'd bet 225 and fold to a raise