2 hands vs PS PRO

So after playing these 2 hands vs this guy I tagged him with the note dumb baboon or the like despite him being an omaha pro figuring he was just a live player and he stinks, but after checking him on ptr hes apparently a pretty huge winner even tho hes on a big downswing. So given that Im an omaha noob I wanted to know if his lines are correct and if they are Im playing way too tight in these spots, and maybe my betsizing is a leak or a something, what do you think ?

Submitted by : EvilSky

PokerStars Game #42330617803: Omaha Pot Limit ($5/$10 USD) - 2010/04/07 22:44:14 CET [2010/04/07 16:44:14 ET]
Table Lotis IV 6-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: coxnator ($1561.65 in chips)
Seat 2: tylergf ($970 in chips)
Seat 3: amslv ($950 in chips)
Seat 4: Hero ($1442 in chips)
Seat 5: Jp kelly ($1000 in chips)
Seat 6: PlayWMyNuts ($1254.25 in chips)
Hero: posts small blind $5
Jp kelly: posts big blind $10

Holecards(Odds)
Dealt to Hero
PlayWMyNuts: folds
coxnator: folds
tylergf: folds
amslv: folds
Hero: raises $20 to $30
Jp kelly: raises $60 to $90
Hero: raises $180 to $270
Jp kelly: calls $180

Flop(Odds) (Pot : $540.00)

   
Hero: bets $290
Jp kelly: calls $290

Turn(Odds) (Pot : $1,120.00)

   
Hero: checks
Jp kelly: checks

River (Pot : $1,120.00)

   
Hero: checks
Jp kelly: checks

Showdown
Hero: shows (two pair, Aces and Threes)
Jp kelly: shows (three of a kind, Threes)
Jp kelly collected $1117 from pot

Summary
Total pot $1120 | Rake $3
Board  
Seat 1: coxnator folded before Flop (didnt bet)
Seat 2: tylergf folded before Flop (didnt bet)
Seat 3: amslv (button) folded before Flop (didnt bet)
Seat 4: Hero (small blind) showed and lost with two pair, Aces and Threes
Seat 5: Jp kelly (big blind) showed and won ($1117) with three of a kind, Threes
Seat 6: PlayWMyNuts folded before Flop (didnt bet)

PokerStars Game #42331835734: Omaha Pot Limit ($5/$10 USD) - 2010/04/07 23:10:16 CET [2010/04/07 17:10:16 ET]
Table Arkab III 6-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: Jp kelly ($985 in chips)
Seat 2: tylergf ($942 in chips)
Seat 3: PlayWMyNuts ($1200.75 in chips)
Seat 4: coxnator ($1278.75 in chips)
Seat 5: amslv ($2396 in chips)
Seat 6: Hero ($1222 in chips)
tylergf: posts small blind $5
PlayWMyNuts: posts big blind $10

Holecards(Odds)
Dealt to Hero
coxnator: folds
amslv: folds
Hero: raises $25 to $35
Jp kelly: raises $85 to $120
tylergf: folds
PlayWMyNuts: folds
Hero: raises $255 to $375
Jp kelly: calls $255

Flop(Odds) (Pot : $765.00)

   
Hero: bets $270
Jp kelly: raises $340 to $610 and is all-in
Hero: calls $340

Turn(Odds) (Pot : $1,985.00)

   

River (Pot : $1,985.00)

   

Showdown
Hero: shows (a full house, Fives full of Sixes)
Jp kelly: mucks hand
Hero collected $1982 from pot

Summary
Total pot $1985 | Rake $3
Board  
Seat 1: Jp kelly (button) mucked
Seat 2: tylergf (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 3: PlayWMyNuts (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 4: coxnator folded before Flop (didnt bet)
Seat 5: amslv folded before Flop (didnt bet)
Seat 6: Hero showed and won ($1982) with a full house, Fives full of Sixes

I guess it depends how wide ur 4b range is and what he thinks of it. If he thinks you have a high pair and he is holding an unpaired hand then he always has odds to call a flop bet when he hits any pair. In both spots he is a 2-1 dog so hes got the odds even when ur betting close to pot, assuming you havent nailed the flop which he probably does if he puts you on a AAxx or KKxx. Your bets are so small tho that he has great odds to call in both spots. Are you always betting this small on the flop in a 4b pot? 3b pot?

As for the hands specifically, hand 1 seems pretty horrible that he checks back twice on the turn and river after floating flop. Why is he floating if hes not even gonna make a move when you show weakness. Hand 2 i think its pretty clear you are never folding to what is essentially a min raise all in so that looks like spew/tilt and hes hoping to get lucky.

All of this looks alot worse for him if you are capable of 4betting more then big purrs

Hand 1:
-A huge part of your range probably includes a nut or 2nd nut flush here with your various KKxx & AAxx combos.
-There is too much money in the pot PF to not just bet pot and get it in
-This is a situation where he either flopped a flush after calling 1/3 of his stack foolishly and gets your money or he missed and you win the pot as long as you find your balls and make the bets. Honestly the worst thing you can do here is play passively and assume that he has it.
-Keep in mind some players are tight enough that even in 3-bet/4-bet pots with a low flush they will give it up because they convince themselves you have the nut flush when you bet big

Hand 2:
-If he 3-bets a lot your 4-bet is fine
-You flop the nuts. You bet a size that looks like you're trying to get a cheap steal on an easy-win board and induces a pair of 3's to shove. Looks good to me.
-Honestly the only other line on the flop is C/R AI assuming he'll feel like this board almost never hits your range.

hand 1:

some players just aren't going to give up vs this flop bet. a lot of players really. I might go ahead and shove the turn. Actually I am pretty sure I would. Why? because the pot was 540 on the flop and fuck him is why.


hand 2:

it looks fine that guy is loose as hell

I actually wasnt at all scared in hand 1, I checked the turn to induce a jam expecting him to shove whatever he had there, and since it was pretty much a lock board I figured there was no need to bet big since im either WA/WB... well actually it would be somewhat ahead/drawing dead but you get my point.

I appreciate the input about my own lines but I was asking more to see about his lines and if they are good or bad and if I should see the merit to those were I in his shoes.

I think hand 1 he is a dipshit for not shoving the river though I like his turn check

and hand 2 I guess is ok he's kinda been drug into it but it's a high variance game I think he's playing

hand 2 I am not good enough at math to be able to tell but assuming u have KK/AA/2 pair/pair + draw or better I mean it seems like he's always behind on the flop here so I guess hand 2 I think he should fold

I explained more above but overall both his lines are trash 100bbs deep

hand 2 is pretty standard. he's always gonna draw to 2 pair in that spot.

I can find some reason to his postflop play but flatting 4bets with such dominated trash hands seems very spewy bad... who knows.

LOL jp kelly is horrendous

On April 08 2010 13:09 EvilSky wrote: I can find some reason to his postflop play but flatting 4bets with such dominated trash hands seems very spewy bad... who knows.

it's very easy to beat AA or KK when u have 4 different cards to use

On April 08 2010 13:51 Daut wrote: LOL jp kelly is horrendous

I was gonna say.

PLO variance lol. These 2 hands look so ridiculously bad (by him). He probably just ran really good and at PLO you can win shitloads if you just run good.

On April 08 2010 13:09 EvilSky wrote: I can find some reason to his postflop play but flatting 4bets with such dominated trash hands seems very spewy bad... who knows.

Postflop he obviously can't fold on a rainbow flop with a pair and 2 bd flush draws given the odds against your likely AAXX. Preflop 3bet is spewy and the call of the 4bet is even more spew.

I really like his flop call in hand 1...
And checking back turn and river after that...

wow wtf is he doing in both of these hands

I really think he played hand 1 fine other than not betting river
whats ur guys complaint

On April 09 2010 12:53 asdf2000 wrote: I really think he played hand 1 fine other than not betting river whats ur guys complaint

pf?

What did he do wrong pf?

2nd hand i think is more standard than first, both are defensible altho i think his flop call hand 1 is fairly lol, but yea 2nd hand is 10000000% standard. but just commenting that in general hes awful

dont read too much into 60-70k hand samples.. especially in omaha

I also think him not shoving river in hand #1 is retarded / really weak. With only 400 left on the turn, you are bascially never checking with anything (since theres 1150 in the pot) , not twice, since it dosnt make sence to with the pot so inflated. Anything 2 pair or better we are shoving the turn 100% of the time, your hand is defined as almost exclusivley AA-KK which you don't feel you can value bet on this board texture but your never folding this river either

hand #2 is a little more standard

i cant believe kelly's lines lol