hand from 2p2

I disagree with a friend of mine about a particular hand. We posted it on 2p2 but there wasn't too much discussion.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/56/...iting-wide-range-744812/#post17752522

BTN is very aggressive post flop and has been quite active this session. Bluff raises a lot of flops and I believe he can continue on the turn a decent amount. Folding is out of the question. Should we shove turn or call and call any river? (we are giving him 3-1 odds if we shove turn)

LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter

BTN: $985
SB: $972
BB: $748
Hero (UTG): $1,977
CO: $1,005

Pre-Flop: Ks Td dealt to Hero (UTG)
Hero raises to $35, CO folds, BTN calls $35, 2 folds

Flop: ($85) 3s 5d Tc (2 Players)
Hero bets $65, BTN raises to $200, Hero calls $135

Turn: ($485) 8s (2 Players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $250

I would cc turn and river if folding is out of the question, dont really like jamming turn at all

Depends on his riv shove freq doesn't it?

yikes

the problem im having with this hand is that if he did raise the flop with pure air and turn a draw he would probably bet bigger to give himself odds to call a shove if we did c/r all in, and if he didnt turn a draw hes a bit more likely to shut down.

i would make my decision on how likely he is to flat JJ+ to try to set up a squeeze from someone behind you. if its very likely because theres a 3bet happy tard behind him then id probably c/f cause i dont think his pure air comes often enough to balance how often we just get stacked.. if hes not setting up a squeeze enough then i would say the best action is to call because i dont think he has a lot of turned draws that have many outs vs you, maybe something like qj is possible, but the spade draws or open enders i think are not likely so you have less to fear by c/c checking and you get called by less when c/shoving

I thought his air range was huge here and if we're assuming he continues a decent amount of the time on the river whether he turned some sort of draw or not u should call,call vs this betsize. If we know he shuts down riv a ton with missed draws, shuts down turn a ton if he doesn't turn a draw, and/or is valuebetting 99 or equivalent and shutting down river a lot then shove turn by all means. Otherwise vs given description I will always call/call

Btw I think his turn betsize says "I'm shoving river" not "I don't have a draw"

peachy is on point here 100%

I don't think I ever shove turn here, always call call

At first glance it seems call call is the best line, but its really hard for me to see how he will be bluffing on a river brick when our hand is face up and we will be getting 3:1.Well I guess we still get the value from him giving up and maybe he will bluff the scarecards, also there might be a chance hes just a monkey and will jam for no reason, yea I guess call/call it is.

it's either c/c c/c or fold on turn. Why move all in on turn. You can only get called with a hand that has you beat. If you call turn you can't fold river. His bet size though smells like a hand like a10. I don't think he's betting 250 with 10 q or a hand like 10j that doesn't smell right.

MOD EDIT: please dont in high stakes discussion when you play microstakes.

double post

On March 29 2010 01:46 GfOrcebOnd wrote: it's either c/c c/c or fold on turn. Why move all in on turn. You can only get called with a hand that has you beat. If you call turn you can't fold river. His bet size though smells like a hand like a10. I don't think he's betting 250 with 10 q or a hand like 10j that doesn't smell right.

Hey guys...

something doesn't smell right...


...

i lold at him giving advice and trying to look smart
MOD EDIT: please dont in high stakes discussion when you play microstakes.

On March 29 2010 01:46 GfOrcebOnd wrote: it's either c/c c/c or fold on turn. Why move all in on turn. You can only get called with a hand that has you beat. If you call turn you can't fold river. His bet size though smells like a hand like a10. I don't think he's betting 250 with 10 q or a hand like 10j that doesn't smell right.

4 YEARS OF POKER EXPERIENCE

On March 29 2010 21:09 EzPzLmnSqz wrote: i lold at him giving advice and trying to look smart

You sure do lol a lot.

Submitted by : Steal City

PokerStars Game #23456978654: Holdem No Limit ($5/$10 USD) - 2010/04/01 1:03:15 CCT [2010/03/31 13:03:15 ET]
Table Newella X 2-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: sibupk ($428.75 in chips)
Seat 2: Hero ($1268.10 in chips)
sibupk: posts small blind $5
Hero: posts big blind $10

Holecards
Dealt to Hero
sibupk: raises $20 to $30
Hero: raises $80 to $110
sibupk: calls $80

Flop (Pot : $220.00)

   
Hero: checks
sibupk: checks

Turn (Pot : $220.00)

   
Hero: checks
sibupk: bets $60
Hero:

On March 31 2010 12:27 Steal City wrote: Submitted by : Steal City PokerStars Game #23456978654: Holdem No Limit ($5/$10 USD) - 2010/04/01 1:03:15 CCT [2010/03/31 13:03:15 ET] Table Newella X 2-max Seat #1 is the button Seat 1: sibupk ($428.75 in chips) Seat 2: Hero ($1268.10 in chips) sibupk: posts small blind $5 Hero: posts big blind $10 Holecards Dealt to Hero sibupk: raises $20 to $30 Hero: raises $80 to $110 sibupk: calls $80 Flop (Pot : $220.00)     Hero: checks sibupk: checks Turn (Pot : $220.00)     Hero: checks sibupk: bets $60 Hero: although there are some noticeable differences in the lead up, i thought this was a very very similar spot if i think i have the best hand, how do i play it?

start by not folding

shove on him and frinkx theorem yourself when you die to 55 so you don't feel retarded

On March 30 2010 17:08 nnnneeerrd wrote: Show nested quote + On March 29 2010 21:09 EzPzLmnSqz wrote: i lold at him giving advice and trying to look smart You sure do lol a lot.

aww u mad everyone saw ur post for what it was? there there now
-patpat-

MOD EDIT: please dont in high stakes discussion when you play microstakes.

On March 31 2010 12:27 Steal City wrote: Submitted by : Steal City PokerStars Game #23456978654: Holdem No Limit ($5/$10 USD) - 2010/04/01 1:03:15 CCT [2010/03/31 13:03:15 ET] Table Newella X 2-max Seat #1 is the button Seat 1: sibupk ($428.75 in chips) Seat 2: Hero ($1268.10 in chips) sibupk: posts small blind $5 Hero: posts big blind $10 Holecards Dealt to Hero sibupk: raises $20 to $30 Hero: raises $80 to $110 sibupk: calls $80 Flop (Pot : $220.00)     Hero: checks sibupk: checks Turn (Pot : $220.00)     Hero: checks sibupk: bets $60 Hero: although there are some noticeable differences in the lead up, i thought this was a very very similar spot if i think i have the best hand, how do i play it?

the reason we chk the flop is because we expect him to bluff a decent amount of the time, but only one street most of the time. otherwise checking is pretty bad because we turn our hand face up. i don't understand why you would do anything besides call on this turn, unless u want to put in a small c/r expecting to get value from a worse A hi sometimes? (which doesn't make that much sense to me because if that were the case betting the turn is far superior)

On March 31 2010 23:05 EzPzLmnSqz wrote: Show nested quote + On March 30 2010 17:08 nnnneeerrd wrote:   On March 29 2010 21:09 EzPzLmnSqz wrote: i lold at him giving advice and trying to look smart You sure do lol a lot. aww u mad everyone saw ur post for what it was? there there now -patpat-

hehe. That is my current level of thinking with poker. That is why I am here posting.. Please dont tease me =]
MOD EDIT: please dont in high stakes discussion when you play microstakes.

On March 31 2010 23:41 n0rthf4ce wrote: Show nested quote + On March 31 2010 12:27 Steal City wrote: Submitted by : Steal City PokerStars Game #23456978654: Holdem No Limit ($5/$10 USD) - 2010/04/01 1:03:15 CCT [2010/03/31 13:03:15 ET] Table Newella X 2-max Seat #1 is the button Seat 1: sibupk ($428.75 in chips) Seat 2: Hero ($1268.10 in chips) sibupk: posts small blind $5 Hero: posts big blind $10 Holecards Dealt to Hero sibupk: raises $20 to $30 Hero: raises $80 to $110 sibupk: calls $80 Flop (Pot : $220.00)     Hero: checks sibupk: checks Turn (Pot : $220.00)     Hero: checks sibupk: bets $60 Hero: although there are some noticeable differences in the lead up, i thought this was a very very similar spot if i think i have the best hand, how do i play it? the reason we chk the flop is because we expect him to bluff a decent amount of the time, but only one street most of the time. otherwise checking is pretty bad because we turn our hand face up. i don't understand why you would do anything besides call on this turn, unless u want to put in a small c/r expecting to get value from a worse A hi sometimes? (which doesn't make that much sense to me because if that were the case betting the turn is far superior)

this + reason #2 - Seat 1: sibupk ($428.75 in chips)

villian is a huge fish and is gonna have horrible bluffing frequencies

yea in 2nd hand i thought c/c c/c was the only way to play the hand. A Queen came on river and I c/c his shove, he had KJo. There seems to be more strong opinions for c/c in the 2nd hand then in the first even though this donk in the 2nd hand is betting so tiny on the turn.

although the fact that it's a RRed pot makes it more likely I'm dominating him or at least that he didn't hit the flop and his lack of bet on the flop makes it look like he doesn't have a flush draw bc he'd have 2 overs or combo draw if that were the case

in the 2nd hand i think an alternative is to bet/call flop by leading flop super small to induce (like 90)

not so sure about turn play if he flats, i think it's close between shoving for protection / check/calling


no comment on the 1st hand but call/call seems better if we really like our KT here, cause if his air range is spazzy enough to bluff-raise / barrel this turn with nothing, then he's more likely to have total air than some sort of draw with enough equity to call an AI

question for everyone: what's our play if the turn is a J/Q in the first hand, same situation and action? that seems like a much harder decision

On March 31 2010 23:52 nnnneeerrd wrote: Show nested quote + On March 31 2010 23:05 EzPzLmnSqz wrote:   On March 30 2010 17:08 nnnneeerrd wrote:   On March 29 2010 21:09 EzPzLmnSqz wrote: i lold at him giving advice and trying to look smart You sure do lol a lot. aww u mad everyone saw ur post for what it was? there there now -patpat- hehe. That is my current level of thinking with poker. That is why I am here posting.. Please dont tease me =]

if my name was raaaggee i think we could combine to create a formidable duo

posts like these make me miss my mod powers

Im just taking care of this shit going on here, banning all those micro trolls from both high and medium.