Turned 2 pairs but facing a pot bet.. NL25

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call turn shove river?

i would call turn with no reads~ he bets pretty big

On March 08 2010 12:55 vlseph wrote: call turn shove river?

+1
without the question mark...

call turn call river

Ended up getting it in in the end and he turned up with Pocket 9's for a set Q.Q

don't think you can fold top 2 on board like this.

On March 08 2010 13:29 SakiSaki wrote: call turn call river

On March 08 2010 15:23 vlseph wrote: don't think you can fold top 2 on board like this.

this.

you only lose to a set.

He most likely has AK or AQ, I'd try and get the money in

The answer depends on weather you like money or not. If you do like money you could check-raise turn and get it all in or check-raise river and get it all in.

On March 08 2010 15:41 Augury wrote: He most likely has AK or AQ or a set of 9s, I'd call/check to the showdown

He has an A way more often than he has a set of 9s

Realistically pockets from 6-A are in his range. It depends if you think he's a setminer or not though.

Villain is CO, I doubt you have a large sample, 24/12 is kinda weird. prolly doesn't have A6 in range, but probably has A9-AK. You lose to 7 combos of 66/99/AA, I doub't he's c betting JJ in a big multi way pot. Just stack off on river buddy.

Is this thread about weather or not to shove the turn or call or call and let villian bet again? I dunno about you guys but I'm SUPER exited here, I dont get the feeling the rest of you are as exited as I am

The only hand you're worried about is a set.... He most likely has AK or AQ. Definitely try and get it in and be delighted that he's shoveling so many chips in himself.

On March 10 2010 13:53 TalentedTom wrote: Is this thread about weather or not to shove the turn or call or call and let villian bet again? I dunno about you guys but I'm SUPER exited here, I dont get the feeling the rest of you are as exited as I am

I think thats clearly what it is about. If not you guys are bad. shoving is nice I don't expect this guy to fold ak. sometimes you should call though if the guy is observant and decent

On March 10 2010 00:17 zulu_nation8 wrote: He has an A way more often than he has a set of 9s

what aces is he betting this strong with? AQ? AK? AT? Not too many hands here. Maybe a worse 2 pair as well.

On March 10 2010 14:33 SugoGosu wrote: Show nested quote + On March 10 2010 00:17 zulu_nation8 wrote: He has an A way more often than he has a set of 9s what aces is he betting this strong with? AQ? AK? AT? Not too many hands here. Maybe a worse 2 pair as well.

If his range is AA,99,JJ,66,AKs,AKo, we are still ahead.

Write down all possible combinations of cards, count them and see -.-


EDIT: OHHOHH you are at NL25, please PLEASE go find some poker math articles and base your future progress on proper odds and ranges math, it will help you SOOO MUCH!

StoxEV, Pokerazer or Stove will tell you the same

wtf? ur thinking aobut being passive?

either raise turn or raise river.

well title is turned 2 pair BUT facing a pot bet lol

It was just spooky b/c i've never seen this guy bet near pot on turn with just top pair.. I ended up getting it all in and he turned up with set of 9's. For some reason alot of 25nlers on stars that play "regularly" likes to bet alot heavier with a set than tptk (obviously to get it in but still kinda sends off alerts when I see a guy bet alot heavier than usual)(They'll also fold here w/ AK if I reraise heavy on turn alot of times) Alot of them also only donkbet with a set...

Obviously that's just my table observation but im no soulreader nor a very good player and the proper play would be as you guys said to callcall or raise.

Eventhough I felt like i was beat i doubt i'd fold here ever :X
I'm still pretty new to poker and was wondering what you guys might think of it. Thanks for the advices

(sorry doublepost)

It doesn't matter what I think his range is if he's pot betting and my read is a set. I couldn't fold top two here but I could check/call to the showdown.

Just saying sometimes the math will lose you money that you could have saved with a read. Poker isn't all about percentages.

Poker is all about percentages. Anything can be broken down to an EV equation, and you just have to add ranges.

If his range doesn't include AK than put only sets to the equation. In that case calling at any point doesn't make sense and you should fold turn.

The vast majority of players wiill play AK exactly like this and it will be the correct play at NL25 where nobody is folding an ace ever, and thats what we are basing our advice upon.


Another thing is the fact that stacking off here will never have negative impact on your winrate as 99.5% of people are not folding here ever.

You can't say that about folding and if he does play AK like this even small amount of the time you will be making a worse play than everybody else would and lose money.

Wow some of you guys are such nits, I get it in here (prob flat turn and shove river) every day and see AK/AQ/A9/A6/maybe even AT here a lot and get paid off, if it's a set you're just getting coolered, don't wanna miss value from all the other hands.

On March 14 2010 07:42 LemOn[5thF] wrote: Poker is all about percentages. Anything can be broken down to an EV equation, and you just have to add ranges. If his range doesn't include AK than put only sets to the equation. In that case calling at any point doesn't make sense and you should fold turn. The vast majority of players wiill play AK exactly like this and it will be the correct play at NL25 where nobody is folding an ace ever, and thats what we are basing our advice upon. Another thing is the fact that stacking off here will never have negative impact on your winrate as 99.5% of people are not folding here ever. You can't say that about folding and if he does play AK like this even small amount of the time you will be making a worse play than everybody else would and lose money.

I mean, I understand most of the things you're stating, I was just concerned about losing the minimum in a spot where you're likely to be beat. Maybe I overestimate the logic of micro limit players. If you win you win more, if you lose you were gonna lose anyway and there's nothing you could have done about it? You can't fold top two in this spot, I understand that. I'm starting to understand why you would shove instead of check/calling though.

Should I be getting rid of the idea of "losing the minimum" in my head?

If you guys had to choose between calling turn- and shoving river, or just shoving turn.
what would you choose and why? are all of you just shoving turn here?

I'd shove turn over shoving river. I really dont want to see something like the K of diamonds on the river.

Call turn, shove majority of the river.
Although I don't mind shoving turn, I think that's the conventional nut line, so I would think more hands will call the shove river than shove turn.
You don't have to worry so much about the cards on river. It will most likely brick anyway. The only cards you don't want to see are K and Q.

On March 15 2010 04:06 Arirang wrote: Call turn, shove majority of the river. Although I don't mind shoving turn, I think that's the conventional nut line, so I would think more hands will call the shove river than shove turn. You don't have to worry so much about the cards on river. It will most likely brick anyway. The only cards you don't want to see are K and Q.

lol I got it in on the turn, I think I like the call/call line though :X

offtopic: you're nickname is so Korean -_-;;

Something I feel must add, if you are not -->>HAPPY<<-- to be getting it in here you are a results oriented / extremley weak player in terms of confidence

cause I'm pumping my fists when I turn that 2 pair, super exited when he 2 barrels, if you are not EXITED.. TIME TO GET EXITED

LOL sorry Tom, but it's "excited"

I read that second sentence and was visioning an insta-fist pump turn two pair and snap closing the client.

3bet pre ...

On March 15 2010 21:59 edzwoo wrote: LOL sorry Tom, but it's "excited" I read that second sentence and was visioning an insta-fist pump turn two pair and snap closing the client.

this is hilarious

press call