On May 25 2010 08:17 lucifer wrote:
xafies... jesus we KNOW
And that is why it is the fucking retarded ever.
lol I agree.I simply wanted to point out how meaningless it was
You can not lose if you do not play
Last edit: 25/05/2010 09:48
1
EvilSky Czech Republic. May 25 2010 09:48. Posts 8918
This show was hook after hook and at the end when the entire inside of your mouth is torn from these hooks and you are desperately flapping around trying to make sense of it all they just kick you back into the sea and say just forget about it, let go. fuck you!
How can people get this far into the show and not understand it?
The events of the island actually happened, the survivors were alive on the island. The events of the sideways are in an ambigous timeline when ALL the survivors are gone. Christian's statement clearly points this out, "some died before you, some after," along with Hurley and Ben obviously having a past that is after Jack's death in the final scene, showing more went on after his death than what we saw.
Hugo says "you WERE a good number 2", and Ben replies "And you WERE a good number 1"
Miles, Lapidus, Claire, Richard, Sawyer and Kate all left the island, only to die some time after Jack.
Jack died as he walked around the bamboos, which was obviously where he first woke up.
Ben and Hugo did what Richard and Jacob did until who knows when, and then they died. We dont know when this happened. It could be the day after they took the job, or it could be hundreds or thousands of years after, like how it was for Jacob.
The purgatory is timeless. When one of them dies, they experience what we just saw. So, when Locke was killed by Ben, he began to see the alternative timeline, got hit by Desmond, remembered his on-island life through Jack, and so on. They are in the same purgatory realm, even if they didn't die at the same time.
Island = Real
Flash Sideways = Purgatory/Afterlife
The Church and the final scene = Heaven
I understand all of this but it explains nothing, most importantly the flash SIDEWAYS of season 6 (it's not back or forward, it's sideways, get the terms straight guys!).
Some people are going with flash sideways being purgatory / afterlife. I think they fit more as an alternate reality.
Now here's something NO ONE HAS EXPLAINED. And this seems to be the real point of the show. The ending was about them all going together past purgatory/reincarnation. But to do that they all had to be "woken up". To wake them up Desmond and Hurley were running around organizing stuff. But remember the white haired lady, faraday's mother, is very aware of what's going on. She and desmond have been having some crazy meetups in alternate realities since season 3. So it seems to me that the point of the entire series wasn't to save the light or find out about jacob or anything like that, it was about all of these people moving on to a higher state of being, and finding a way to make that happen. It's clear from faradays mother that desmond has tried this multiple times and failed. This time he finally has figured out how to get everyone awake and together.
This is what tilts me - there's no talk about faraday's mother, desmond and hurley, and what they were up to in the flash sideways, how they knew to do those things, etc.
bro, my posts and killThemDonks' explain it very clearly
its not an alternate universe, the flashFORWARD is purgatory, were they meet in the afterlife
just read killThemDonks' post
Bro, there were no flash forwards in season 6, they would flash SIDEWAYS
And that post doesn't talk about faraday's mother at all. I read it. I quoted it cause I read it. Don't tell me to re-read it when the answer isn't there. Thanks bro.
InnovativeYogis.com
1
HeRoS)eNGagE Canada. May 25 2010 11:36. Posts 10896
why no womens could have a baby on thte island?
why does walt has special powers?
why only claire had to riase aaron?
who the fuck built the statue?
who the fuck built the temple?
what does the temple/people from the temple bring to the serie? i mean why they ever put that into the serie it was fucking useless
why do we see the island, under the water, in the start of the last season?
waht is the light exactly? its like the wine bottle?
hmmm
cant think about more questions i would like answers... maybe some of them got answered so im asking you guys
How can people get this far into the show and not understand it?
The events of the island actually happened, the survivors were alive on the island. The events of the sideways are in an ambigous timeline when ALL the survivors are gone. Christian's statement clearly points this out, "some died before you, some after," along with Hurley and Ben obviously having a past that is after Jack's death in the final scene, showing more went on after his death than what we saw.
Hugo says "you WERE a good number 2", and Ben replies "And you WERE a good number 1"
Miles, Lapidus, Claire, Richard, Sawyer and Kate all left the island, only to die some time after Jack.
Jack died as he walked around the bamboos, which was obviously where he first woke up.
Ben and Hugo did what Richard and Jacob did until who knows when, and then they died. We dont know when this happened. It could be the day after they took the job, or it could be hundreds or thousands of years after, like how it was for Jacob.
The purgatory is timeless. When one of them dies, they experience what we just saw. So, when Locke was killed by Ben, he began to see the alternative timeline, got hit by Desmond, remembered his on-island life through Jack, and so on. They are in the same purgatory realm, even if they didn't die at the same time.
Island = Real
Flash Sideways = Purgatory/Afterlife
The Church and the final scene = Heaven
I understand all of this but it explains nothing, most importantly the flash SIDEWAYS of season 6 (it's not back or forward, it's sideways, get the terms straight guys!).
Some people are going with flash sideways being purgatory / afterlife. I think they fit more as an alternate reality.
Now here's something NO ONE HAS EXPLAINED. And this seems to be the real point of the show. The ending was about them all going together past purgatory/reincarnation. But to do that they all had to be "woken up". To wake them up Desmond and Hurley were running around organizing stuff. But remember the white haired lady, faraday's mother, is very aware of what's going on. She and desmond have been having some crazy meetups in alternate realities since season 3. So it seems to me that the point of the entire series wasn't to save the light or find out about jacob or anything like that, it was about all of these people moving on to a higher state of being, and finding a way to make that happen. It's clear from faradays mother that desmond has tried this multiple times and failed. This time he finally has figured out how to get everyone awake and together.
This is what tilts me - there's no talk about faraday's mother, desmond and hurley, and what they were up to in the flash sideways, how they knew to do those things, etc.
bro, my posts and killThemDonks' explain it very clearly
its not an alternate universe, the flashFORWARD is purgatory, were they meet in the afterlife
just read killThemDonks' post
Bro, there were no flash forwards in season 6, they would flash SIDEWAYS
Bro, did you even watch it? Because they totally were not bro.
Watch the alternate endings from my last post instead bro. Much better endings bro.
On February 19 2009 22:21 Confedrate wrote: i dont get it
How can people get this far into the show and not understand it?
The events of the island actually happened, the survivors were alive on the island. The events of the sideways are in an ambigous timeline when ALL the survivors are gone. Christian's statement clearly points this out, "some died before you, some after," along with Hurley and Ben obviously having a past that is after Jack's death in the final scene, showing more went on after his death than what we saw.
Hugo says "you WERE a good number 2", and Ben replies "And you WERE a good number 1"
Miles, Lapidus, Claire, Richard, Sawyer and Kate all left the island, only to die some time after Jack.
Jack died as he walked around the bamboos, which was obviously where he first woke up.
Ben and Hugo did what Richard and Jacob did until who knows when, and then they died. We dont know when this happened. It could be the day after they took the job, or it could be hundreds or thousands of years after, like how it was for Jacob.
The purgatory is timeless. When one of them dies, they experience what we just saw. So, when Locke was killed by Ben, he began to see the alternative timeline, got hit by Desmond, remembered his on-island life through Jack, and so on. They are in the same purgatory realm, even if they didn't die at the same time.
Island = Real
Flash Sideways = Purgatory/Afterlife
The Church and the final scene = Heaven
I understand all of this but it explains nothing, most importantly the flash SIDEWAYS of season 6 (it's not back or forward, it's sideways, get the terms straight guys!).
Some people are going with flash sideways being purgatory / afterlife. I think they fit more as an alternate reality.
Now here's something NO ONE HAS EXPLAINED. And this seems to be the real point of the show. The ending was about them all going together past purgatory/reincarnation. But to do that they all had to be "woken up". To wake them up Desmond and Hurley were running around organizing stuff. But remember the white haired lady, faraday's mother, is very aware of what's going on. She and desmond have been having some crazy meetups in alternate realities since season 3. So it seems to me that the point of the entire series wasn't to save the light or find out about jacob or anything like that, it was about all of these people moving on to a higher state of being, and finding a way to make that happen. It's clear from faradays mother that desmond has tried this multiple times and failed. This time he finally has figured out how to get everyone awake and together.
This is what tilts me - there's no talk about faraday's mother, desmond and hurley, and what they were up to in the flash sideways, how they knew to do those things, etc.
bro, my posts and killThemDonks' explain it very clearly
its not an alternate universe, the flashFORWARD is purgatory, were they meet in the afterlife
just read killThemDonks' post
Bro, there were no flash forwards in season 6, they would flash SIDEWAYS
Bro, did you even watch it? Because they totally were not bro.
Watch the alternate endings from my last post instead bro. Much better endings bro.
Hey Bro, is your name Brody cause that was Brotastic.
InnovativeYogis.com
1
TheHuHu3 United States. May 25 2010 22:14. Posts 5544
Great ending. Cried like a bitch at the last 10 minutes (no homo).
TheHuHu4 coming soon :)
1
sniderstyle United States. May 26 2010 03:11. Posts 2046
Good stuff on here! I can finally throw in my two cents! I've had to bite my tongue for far too long. Also, hopefully I can answer some of John's questions about Dharma and the "pointless breadcrumbs" that really, weren't so pointless ...
First ...
The Island:
It was real. Everything that happened on the island that we saw throughout the 6 seasons was real. Forget the final image of the plane crash, it was put in purposely to f*&k with people's heads and show how far the show had come. They really crashed. They really survived. They really discovered Dharma and the Others. The Island keeps the balance of good and evil in the world. It always has and always will perform that role. And the Island will always need a "Protector". Jacob wasn't the first, Hurley won't be the last. However, Jacob had to deal with a malevolent force (MIB) that his mother, nor Hurley had to deal with. He created the devil and had to find a way to kill him -- even though the rules prevented him from actually doing so.
Thus began Jacob's plan to bring candidates to the Island to do the one thing he couldn't do. Kill the MIB. He had a huge list of candidates that spanned generations. Yet everytime he brought people there, the MIB corrupted them and caused them to kill one another. That was until Richard came along and helped Jacob understand that if he didn't take a more active role, then his plan would never work.
Enter Dharma -- which I'm not sure why John is having such a hard time grasping. Dharma, like the countless scores of people that were brought to the island before, were brought there by Jacob as part of his plan to kill the MIB. However, the MIB was aware of this plan and interferred by "corrupting" Ben. Making Ben believe he was doing the work of Jacob when in reality he was doing the work of the MIB. This carried over into all of Ben's "off-island" activities. He was the leader. He spoke for Jacob as far as they were concerned. So the "Others" killed Dharma and later were actively trying to kill Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Hurley and all the candidates because that's what the MIB wanted. And what he couldn't do for himself.
Dharma was originally brought in to be good. But was turned bad by MIB's corruption and eventually destroyed by his pawn Ben. Now, was Dharma only brought there to help Jack and the other Canditates on their overall quest to kill Smokey? Or did Jacob have another list of Canidates from the Dharma group that we were never aware of? That's a question that is purposley not answered because whatever answer the writers came up with would be worse than the one you come up with for yourself. Still ... Dharma's purpose is not "pointless" or even vague. Hell, it's pretty blantent.
Still, despite his grand plan, Jacob wanted to give his "candidates" (our Lostaways) the one thing he, nor his brother, were ever afforded: free will. Hence him bringing a host of "candidates" through the decades and letting them "choose" which one would actually do the job in the end. Maybe he knew Jack would be the one to kill Flocke and that Hurley would be the protector in the end. Maybe he didn't. But that was always the key question of the show: Fate vs Free-will. Science vs Faith. Personally I think Jacob knew from the beginning what was going to happen and that everyone played a part over 6 seasons in helping Jack get to the point where he needed to be to kill Smokey and make Hurley the protector -- I know that's how a lot of the writers viewed it. But again, they won't answer that (nor should they) because that ruins the fun.
In the end, Jack got to do what he always wanted to do from the very first episode of the show: Save his fellow Lostaways. He got Kate and Sawyer off the island and he gave Hurley the purpose in life he'd always been missing. And, in Sideways world (which we'll get to next) he in fact saved everyone by helping them all move on ...
Now...
Sideways World:
Sideways world is where it gets really cool in terms of theology and metaphysical discussion (for me at least -- because I love history/religion theories and loved all the talks in the writer's room about it). Basically what the show is proposing is that we're all linked to certain people during our lives. Call them soulmates (though it's not exactly the best word). But these people we're linked to are with us duing "the most important moments of our lives" as Christian said. These are the people we move through the universe with from lifetime to lifetime. It's loosely based in Hinduisim with large doses of western religion thrown into the mix.
The conceit that the writers created, basing it off these religious philosophies, was that as a group, the Lostaways subconsciously created this "sideways" world where they exist in purgatory until they are "awakened" and find one another. Once they all find one another, they can then move on and move forward. In essence, this is the show's concept of the afterlife. According to the show, everyone creates their own "Sideways" purgatory with their "soulmates" throughout their lives and exist there until they all move on together. That's a beautiful notion. Even if you aren't religious or even spirtual, the idea that we live AND die together is deeply profound and moving.
It's a really cool and spirtual concept that fits the whole tone and subtext the show has had from the beginning. These people were SUPPOSED to be together on that plane. They were supposed to live through these events -- not JUST because of Jacob. But because that's what the universe or God (depending on how religious you wish to get) wanted to happen. The show was always about science vs faith -- and it ultimately came down on the side of faith. It answered THE core question of the series. The one question that has been at the root of every island mystery, every character backstory, every plot twist. That, by itself, is quite an accomplishment.
How much you want to extrapolate from that is up to you as the viewer. Think about season 1 when we first found the Hatch. Everyone thought that's THE answer! Whatever is down there is the answer! Then, as we discovered it was just one station of many. One link in a very long chain that kept revealing more, and more of a larger mosiac.
But the writer's took it even further this season by contrasting this Sideways "purgatory" with the Island itself. Remember when Michael appeared to Hurley, he said he was not allowed to leave the Island. Just like the MIB. He wasn't allowed into this sideways world and thus, was not afforded the opportunity to move on. Why? Because he had proven himself to be unworthy with his actions on the Island. He failed the test. The others, passed. They made it into Sideways world when they died -- some before Jack, some years later. In Hurley's case, maybe centuries later. They exist in this sideways world until they are "awakened" and they can only move on TOGETHER because they are linked. They are destined to be together for eternity. That was their destiny.
They were NOT linked to Anna Lucia, Daniel, Roussou, Alex, Miles, Lupidis, (and all the rest who weren't in the chuch -- basically everyone who wasn't in season 1). Yet those people exist in Sideways world. Why? Well again, here's where they leave it up to you to decide. The way I like to think about it, is that those people who were left behind in Sideways world have to find their own soulmates before they can wake up. It's possible that those links aren't people from the island but from their other life (Anna's parnter, the guy she shot --- Roussou's husband, etc etc).
A lot of people have been talking about Ben and why he didn't go into the Church. And if you think of Sideways world in this way, then it gives you the answer to that very question. Ben can't move on yet because he hasn't connected with the people he needs to. It's going to be his job to awaken Roussou, Alex, Anna Lucia (maybe), Ethan, Goodspeed, his father and the rest. He has to attone for his sins more than he did by being Hurley's number two. He has to do what Hurley and Desmond did for our Lostaways with his own people. He has to help them connect. And he can only move on when all the links in his chain are ready to. Same can be said for Faraday, Charlotte, Whidmore, Hawkins etc. It's really a neat, and cool concept. At least to me.
But, from a more "behind the scenes" note: the reason Ben's not in the church, and the reason no one is in the church but for Season 1 people is because they wrote the ending to the show after writing the pilot. And never changed it. The writers always said (and many didn't believe them) that they knew their ending from the very first episode. I applaud them for that. It's pretty fantastic. Originally Ben was supposed to have a 3 episode arc and be done. But he became a big part of the show. They could have easily changed their ending and put him in the church -- but instead they problem solved it. Gave him a BRILLIANT moment with Locke outside the church ... and then that was it. I loved that. For those that wonder -- the original ending started the moment Jack walked into the church and touches the casket to Jack closing his eyes as the other plane flies away. That was always JJ's ending. And they kept it.
For me the ending of this show means a lot. Not only because I worked on it, but because as a writer it inspired me in a way the medium had never done before. I've been inspired to write by great films. Maybe too many to count. And there have been amazing TV shows that I've loved (X-Files, 24, Sopranos, countless 1/2 hour shows). But none did what LOST did for me. None showed me that you could take huge risks (writing a show about faith for network TV) and stick to your creative guns and STILL please the audience. I learned a lot from the show as a writer. I learned even more from being around the incredible writers, producers, PAs, interns and everyone else who slaved on the show for 6 years.
In the end, for me, LOST was a touchstone show that dealt with faith, the afterlife, and all these big, spirtual questions that most shows don't touch. And to me, they never once waivered from their core story -- even with all the sci-fi elements they mixed in. To walk that long and daunting of a creative tightrope and survive is simply astounding.
InnovativeYogis.com
0
dogmeat Czech Republic. May 26 2010 10:27. Posts 6374
On May 26 2010 09:02 retarded writer wrote:
None showed me that you could take huge risks (writing a show about faith for network TV) and stick to your creative guns and STILL please the audience. I learned a lot from the show as a writer.
WTF and fuck no.
Still loving Survivor ending, Sopranos ending and the legendary Newhart ending.
Those were genius and I can understand how he learned from those.
edit: Good fckn work writing the ending and ditching 2 huge main characters. Retarded writing because actors do different shit is STUPID.
That's why the survivor ending is AWESOME. Michael's there.
On February 19 2009 22:21 Confedrate wrote: i dont get it
Last edit: 26/05/2010 11:05
1
HeRoS)eNGagE Canada. May 26 2010 13:05. Posts 10896
thanks for the text k2o4
i get it more now
but i still dont have answers to my questions t.t
1
NewbSaibot United States. Jun 06 2010 01:16. Posts 4952
Just downloaded all of season 6 and watched it, after refusing to watch it air on television with commercials every 5 minutes ruining the experience. I still stand where I stood after season 3, that the writers could never figure out an ending for the series, so they just wrote up a bunch of BS to tie off all the loose ends so they could say they were finally finished with it. They got in over their heads. They came up with a great story, and had lots of interesting story arcs, but they needed more time to figure out their own mess. Studio pressure obviously cant allow this as seasons have a start date and episodes need to be filmed. They were given a deadline to finish the story so they had to butcher it and this is what we got. For a TV series I guess I'll cut them some slack, afterall with such a large ensemble cast and so many different story arcs I cant imagine a team of writers being able to conclude it all that easily. If LOST were a novel, then it could have been one of the greatest of all times, although probably taking 10 years to complete. Oh well, GG Lost.
Contact Users: 813 Active, 0 Logged in - Time: 07:47
Czech Republic. May 25 2010 09:48. Posts 8918
((
,
,
,
,