PS plans to change vpp system

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28/...ing-game-vpps-awarding-change-520114/

Feedback so far has been very bad.
looks like this will be much worse for micro FR-200NL FR,expecially for many SNE grinders.
I am not certain if 6max players would really benefit from this,actually a bit lazy atm to check the numbers myself.

I don't think I saw any deep, analysis in the thread, just some minor calculations.

If FR doesn't get any fishier when/if this happens, I might have to move to 6max.

lol listen to those nits howl
if they think this is bad just wait until the vote is yay for taxation
you are going to see a real change then

and who are they kidding? they aren't quitting
ok sure they might go to FTP lol
but I give them like 3 weeks of that

Whats the summary of the change? Will it have any change on me since i play 2/4 SH?

4 handed each player is awarded 1.25 VPPs

On June 28 2009 09:23 ToTehEastSide wrote: 4 handed each player is awarded 1.25 VPPs

Is that less or more than before? Sounds like its more.

for 2/4 4handed it's more VPPs than before

I think even full 6max gets a little less

New system:

Each table get vpps equal to 5x the the rake. e.g. rake is $3 in a pot, table gets 15vpps. 3handed each player would get 5vpps, 5handed 3vpps etc.

On June 28 2009 09:33 edzwoo wrote: New system: Each table get vpps equal to 5x the the rake. e.g. rake is $3 in a pot, table gets 15vpps. 3handed each player would get 5vpps, 5handed 3vpps etc.

What was old system?:D

Old system:

1. Earn FPP credits for cash game play
First Frequent Player Point (FPP) is awarded for playing a hand in which the rake reaches:

•$0.40 for fixed limit poker games with stakes $1/$2 and lower
•$0.40 for NL/PL poker games with blinds $1/$2 and lower
•$0.40 for ‘1-on-1’ poker games (this applies only to ‘1-on-1’ tables, not to regular tables which have only two players seated)
•$1.00 for all other games
Second FPP is awarded for playing a hand in which the rake reaches:

•$2.00 for all 6-max tables (this doesn't apply for games being played 6- handed at 10/9/8 player tables - just at 6-max tables)
•$3.00 for all other tables
Third FPP is awarded for playing a hand in which the rake reaches $5.00.

basically you got 1 vpp for every 8$ pot you were dealt hands,and 2 vpp for every 60$ pot.
Starting at 2/4 you needed 20$ pot for 1vpp.

good bye jokerstars

tbh this sounds good for 6max players. And will probably bring more nits to 6max, making it lol easy.

Here are some thoughts as far as 6-max at NL200-NL600 is concerned.

Right now, if pot is between 8 and 40 dollars, you get 1 FPP. At $40 pot and above, you get 2 FPPs.

New system, you need a $24 pot before you make your first FPP. Then you need a $48 pot before you make your full second. The difference is that now, you can actually earn between 1 and 2 FPPs when the pot is between $24 and $48. And you can earn more than 2 FPPs as pot goes over $48, up to 2.5 FPPs when rake hits $3 at $60 pot. It's hard to judge whether this will make rake more or less overall at NL200. At NL400-NL600, it will likely get to be more. And it's definitely going to be quite a bit more in games with 5 or less players. I guess I don't mind that change.

Full ring nits though.....LOL

it's hard to say ... imo games will get better when all fckin rakebackpros leave

So how does this affect the "rakeback" based on different limits and vip levels ?

damn now i gotta switch to 6max again. better tell dzoo coaching plan has changed. im not really worried about it tho, FR fpp grinding has kinda fucked me up in a way haha fuck you stars but i really dont care

On June 28 2009 10:09 phexac wrote: Full ring nits though.....LOL

what about 6max nits ?

On June 28 2009 12:13 gororokgororok wrote: Show nested quote + On June 28 2009 10:09 phexac wrote: Full ring nits though.....LOL what about 6max nits ?

more 6max nits obv

On June 28 2009 10:37 dogmeat wrote: it's hard to say ... imo games will get better when all fckin rakebackpros leave

Game will get better when rakeback pros have their rakeback earnings reduced and are forced to play fewer tables and learn more of the game?

I think you're wrong there buddy.

From what I am reading of that 2+2 post this means that we will finally see the emergence of partial VPP's? Meaning that there won't be pots where you earn nothing anymore. Overall I'm willing to bet it doesn't change things much once it all shakes down and people play 1000 hand samples and measure the average # of VPP's they are earning with the new system as compared to the old.

Edit: Although yeah it does kind of look like FR players will see their FPP generation cut quite a bit. Perhaps they will adjust this due to a lot of complaints.

woot go 6max <3 stars, now its more fair

So for 6max players the new system is actually better than the old one ?

For 5/10+ 6max this is definitely good.. rake is 3$ in every pot that's played postflop so that's almost 3vpp per pot (when a 6max game is full) instead of the usual 2.

On June 28 2009 16:11 ConquistadoR wrote: So for 6max players the new system is actually better than the old one ?

Depends how high they play. I did the math for playing at like 50 & 100PLO and it comes out to slightly less or about the same. As you get higher though the benefits go up significantly. It doesn't look like it will be very good for microstakes players though. I'm hoping that with more tinkering they will make everyone reasonably happy. I can't imagine the VPP changes will just ignore all the feedback they are now getting and not have some modifications compared to what was first posted over on 2p2 by Scotty.

6max was getting hosed before. We pay 1/6 the rake but get the same VPP as someone at a FR table that pays 1/10th the rake. If anything it's bringing 6max up to par commensurate with the rake we generate. FR at stars will still be as good relative to FTP or programs at other site, only now so will 6 max.

On June 28 2009 16:42 Cray0ns wrote: 6max was getting hosed before. We pay 1/6 the rake but get the same VPP as someone at a FR table that pays 1/10th the rake. If anything it's bringing 6max up to par commensurate with the rake we generate. FR at stars will still be as good relative to FTP or programs at other site, only now so will 6 max.

this isnt exactly right.

"Second FPP is awarded for playing a hand in which the rake reaches:

•$2.00 for all 6-max tables (this doesn't apply for games being played 6- handed at 10/9/8 player tables - just at 6-max tables)
•$3.00 for all other tables"

Stars did this small change already quite some time ago.

And FR will be worse as FTP,since there,you just get your rakeback without having to worry about your volume of play regarding the vip-status.

this is a massive improvement for micro players if partial vpp's are given

and a good thing for 6max

On June 28 2009 12:28 Maynard! wrote: Show nested quote + On June 28 2009 10:37 dogmeat wrote: it's hard to say ... imo games will get better when all fckin rakebackpros leave Game will get better when rakeback pros have their rakeback earnings reduced and are forced to play fewer tables and learn more of the game? I think you're wrong there buddy.

they are unable to do so... thats why they are rakeback pros

awesome : D !!!

omg im 6max nl50/nl100 player and im highly disappointed by this change....

should i be? -.-

quick question, is this going to apply to VPPs and FPPs or just VPPs?

this is affecting VPPs which in turn affects FPPs

On June 28 2009 19:58 CruiseR wrote: omg im 6max nl50/nl100 player and im highly disappointed by this change.... should i be? -.-

i think this is fne for us.

on another note, is the super moderator soah that replied in the 2p2 thread the same sOah that was kidnapped/disappeared while on stake with Ket?

so fr grinders get Fked and 6max grinders get an increase. Whatever, if your going for elite at FR it shouldnt be that much harder to play an extra 300-400k hands over the course of a year.

read the 2+2 thread and what i got from it was 6max players earn up to 20% more vpps and fr players 20% less
which is of course awesome for 6 max players like myself.

atm however, im much more excited about stars july bonuses

btw lets say 6max players earn 20% more
right now if ure supernova u get 3.5 fpps for every 1vpp earned
1.2* 3.5 = 4.2

So you get 4.2 instead of 3.5 vpps which is 0.7 more or .7/3.5 = 20% more

opps thought the vpp increase would be further mutiplied somehow when translated into fpps but thats not the case. i obv fail at basic mathematical reasoning.

so a x% boost to ur vpps directly translates to an x% boost to ur fpps

Pretty annoying to fuck over fr players but at least it will probably encourage me to switch to 6m.

eeh there wasnt seeming to be enough traffic at 9max 400nl+ anyway on stars for me to conveniently play at weird hours.. guess this is just the extra nudge to go 6max -_-

honestly though, anyone who is like 50nl-100nl 9max right now, take notice that at some hours there are like.. freaking 8 active 400nl tables so if you like selecting or masstabling.. you werent going to be able to do either anyway. so its not a huuge deal imo if the only result is 9max traffic --> 6max traffic since we werent going to get mass tables available past 400nl anyway?

im probably exaggerating but i was playing like between 6 and 10 am i.e. um, 11-4GMT and it was ridiculously bad and at some point during that stretch there were seriously like 4 tables open 400nl fr so i cringe at the thought of trying to play 1knl fr at that time

On June 28 2009 23:04 gawdawaful wrote: on another note, is the super moderator soah that replied in the 2p2 thread the same sOah that was kidnapped/disappeared while on stake with Ket?

Think somebody wondered about that before and not sure who or what, but from what I remember, it's not the same guy. sOah here is supposed to be active as sOah on 2+2 as well ?? Not sure but I think it wasn't the same guy at least.

not the same guy
soah on lp = deFine on 2+2 and lolosaureusex on stars / sUci on ftp.. still no word from him

who cares about vpp's

ket he prob changed id's

austrian fpp and vpp are very important

doesn't look to good for any players under 5/10 at fr or 6m but its less harsh on 6m players, although shouldn't make a huge difference.

who carez bout FR games

this sucks

scottyy with an update

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28/internet-poker/update-pokerstars-vpps-ring-games-522108/

fpp pros, rejoice.

there are already some 5x vpp tables up at small stakes 6m, anyone know when to expect a hem update?

what does 5x vpp mean?

nvm i read it.

my HUD won't work on 5x VPP tables - is this happening to everyone else?

On June 30 2009 15:30 Benzooor wrote: my HUD won't work on 5x VPP tables - is this happening to everyone else?

yes, whenever an update changes the title of the tables, hem needs to be updated to recognize them (i'm guessing pt3 is similar)

that is pretty cool that they didn't go and rape the FR players.

my hud isnt working how can i play poker omg

On July 01 2009 17:18 joLin wrote: my hud isnt working how can i play poker omg

:D for some ppl HEM > brain :D

no off

So what will exactly happen and more importantly (for me) will FR players be fucked or not?

On July 01 2009 17:43 Cro)Deadman wrote: So what will exactly happen and more importantly (for me) will FR players be fucked or not?

as for now, there are tables with the new system, as well with the old one.

on 1st january 2010 (because making changes in middle of the year, when someone is racing for the supernova elite or w/e is unfair) it will be finally decided, if stars will switch to the new system or stick to the current one.

fulring tables dont even have the option, only SH and HU ones in no limit.

On July 01 2009 21:05 RaSZi wrote: isnt the biggest problem that people will play more non 50bb min tables

u mean like donkeys?

i dont even think they know about this or what those new tables mean

On June 29 2009 12:27 Spitfiree wrote: who carez bout FR games

full ring is good f u

mmm all the tables are gone now... WTF ?

nah, the change is implemented completely (atleast at nl10)

the tables just don't say new vpp any more

On July 09 2009 04:44 Vivi57 wrote: nah, the change is implemented completely (atleast at nl10) the tables just don't say new vpp any more

wat... i thought they said they would do it at the end of the year... (on 2+2 the PS guy said it)

i guess he means they will leave FR alone till the end of the year

They are implementing it in the games that receive an increase afaik, so that's 6max and hu etc. They are leaving FR alone because it caused FR players to gain less VPPs.

These are the increases apparently: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showpost.php?p=11612435&postcount=463

The lower stakes 6M games actually generate less VPP now, but 1/2 and over actually generate more which is for sure more important in the long run.

On July 09 2009 14:22 Bejamin1 wrote: The lower stakes 6M games actually generate less VPP now, but 1/2 and over actually generate more which is for sure more important in the long run.

Did you read my post or are you saying Stars are lying?