Gaza Strip - Page 20

I agree with that you have written and yes they are illegally occupied but like i said its a struggle that predates 1967. Occupied or not the way to solve a problem isnt to shoot rockets and suicide bomb a countries that has nukes, air force, and overall military dominance. I mean if your argument for them is that its a illegal occupation people might be more inclined to hear there side if they weren't led by a terrorist organization that promotes terrorist acts.

I would fire rockets too if I were them. Who wouldnt ? This happened in British empire, French empire, American occupations before as well. And they all said the same "We wohnt negiotiate with terrorists". Everyone says this until they understand that peace can not be created before enemies sit down and talk. This violence from Israel just create more of what you mentioned as extremists / terrorist and hatred witch is the biggest problem for Israel. If they dont do something now to get peace with palestines / arabic states they will have problems in future when Europe is nations of old people and USA who are loaing 2 billion $ per day, not just because of the war, but because they have this amazing spending policy, the world might look different than from today. Where is Israel then gonna get their protection from ? Well the big nations is China, India, maybe Iran... this is dangerous for Israel. They have to do something NOW to achieve peace and stabilize their borders from before 1967. NOW they can negotiate based on military power.

Yeah i agree that if i was in the situation i proably would be shooting off rockets as well. The whole Israel should be afraid of china/indian/iran I wont fall for it. China, India, USA have a tighter bond then most on the forum think. Indian and America just signed proclamations to work together in nuclear activity's, China and America rely on each other military wise and economy wise. It is widely known in the military intelligence community about America sharing military technology with China. When all the people were like DON'T GO TO CHINA FREE TIBET. Who showed up? Sure that's not evidence that we are friends lol but it just shows that this world puts on alot of fasades that we all don't see. My thoughts are like serious scattered but I kinda dont want to write a professional article on World Affairs and how we are truly all friends minus a few countries.

China Is lending money to American in the trillions not because they want to buy are country but so they can show the bond and relationship that we truly share. We are so interconnected in nearly every notion that when people say the next super power is china and blah blah blah. Sure in 50 years because China just had its industrialization period.

End of rant/spew

On January 16 2009 12:05 VanDerMeyde wrote: Americans have NO CLUE AT ALL whats really going on in middle east... fucking sad FUCKING stupid americans /%/#%/#

Dude you have been one of the most closed-minded people in this entire thread, your argument is completely one-sided and based on an extremely superficial understanding of the conflict. The most recent post by an American before this tirade was mine, agreeing with you, making these comments irrelevant. Your argument style is a joke.

As for that map, the reason it's useless is the shading is completely arbitrary, and anyone who doesn't realize that has no credibility whatsoever.

On January 16 2009 15:22 VanDerMeyde wrote: I would fire rockets too if I were them. Who wouldnt?

Mandela, who you keep referencing but apparently don't understand. Ghandi. Anybody who has ever accomplished something real in the entire course of human history.

- I dont get this point about "one-sided". If Im neutral in a conflict where there is an occupant and the occupied, I have taken side with the occupant always. Beside i have suggested a lot of Israel friendly solutions on this conflict that will benefit Israel in the long run and is also suggested by UN and arabic-states in 2002, Israel sadly turned it down. I cant see that these "pro-israel" people is so objevtive and critical both ways. Its rather the "pro-israel" people that is one-sided and blindly support Israel's violence.
- I have seen 2 maps in this thread that basicly shows why extremists and hatred grows and is completely understandable. If you think these maps are propaganda, why cant you provide a better map then ? Lets see a map from TedHastings that shows the correct % of land that Israel illegally occupies and place settlers illegally on. Haag and UN says this is illegal and they are also breaking the Geneve-convention

On January 16 2009 15:50 Parker417 wrote: Yeah i agree that if i was in the situation i proably would be shooting off rockets as well. The whole Israel should be afraid of china/indian/iran I wont fall for it. China, India, USA have a tighter bond then most on the forum think. Indian and America just signed proclamations to work together in nuclear activity's, China and America rely on each other military wise and economy wise. It is widely known in the military intelligence community about America sharing military technology with China. When all the people were like DON'T GO TO CHINA FREE TIBET. Who showed up? Sure that's not evidence that we are friends lol but it just shows that this world puts on alot of fasades that we all don't see. My thoughts are like serious scattered but I kinda dont want to write a professional article on World Affairs and how we are truly all friends minus a few countries. China Is lending money to American in the trillions not because they want to buy are country but so they can show the bond and relationship that we truly share. We are so interconnected in nearly every notion that when people say the next super power is china and blah blah blah. Sure in 50 years because China just had its industrialization period. End of rant/spew

You missed my point a little bit, I didnt mean that China or India will attack Israel by any means, im just saying that China or India will not blindly support Israel the same way as USA is now. And this is very dangerous for Israel if they dont start making peace with arabic nations in the small window chance they have now.

On January 16 2009 17:15 VanDerMeyde wrote: - I dont get this point about "one-sided". If Im neutral in a conflict where there is an occupant and the occupied, I have taken side with the occupant always. Beside i have suggested a lot of Israel friendly solutions on this conflict that will benefit Israel in the long run and is also suggested by UN and arabic-states in 2002, Israel sadly turned it down. I cant see that these "pro-israel" people is so objevtive and critical both ways. Its rather the "pro-israel" people that is one-sided and blindly support Israel's violence. - I have seen 2 maps in this thread that basicly shows why extremists and hatred grows and is completely understandable. If you think these maps are propaganda, why cant you provide a better map then ? Lets see a map from TedHastings that shows the correct % of land that Israel illegally occupies and place settlers illegally on. Haag and UN says this is illegal and they are also breaking the Geneve-convention

So if you criticize Hamas for shooting rockets indiscriminately into Jewish urban areas you are supporting the occupation? What? Your argument here sounds like George W Bush: "You're either with us or against us."

Let's break down the map piece by piece. What does the shading represent? I think the intent is to indicate who has legal jurisdiction in what area, but in that case the first frame is misleading because the entire area in 1946 was under British control. Neither the Arabs nor the Jews had control of any of this area. This is important because the person who created this map is attempting to show that in 1946 Arabs controlled the vast majority of land in the region, something that simply is not true.
In the next frame Arabs are shown to be in control of around half the land according to a 1947 UN partition plan. The reality is that this plan never went into effect because the Arabs rejected it. In essence a close reading of this map shows that the Arabs themselves are solely responsible for their current predicament, in which the situation widely viewed as the best possible resolution, a two-state compromise, is exactly what they were offered and rejected in 1947.
In the first two frames the creator of the map chose to use the designation "Palestinian land" where "Arab land" would have been much more appropriate. In the third frame "Palestinian land" is not just less appropriate it is actually inaccurate. From 1948 to 1967 the West Bank was controlled by the nation of Jordan, and the Gaza Strip by Egypt. Again we can see that the map's creator is trying to show a historical precedent for "Palestinian" control of these areas where none existed in reality.
The final frame is a fairly accurate representation of the situation as it exists today. Gaza is controlled by Hamas, and he West Bank is split between Israeli forces who occupied it after the Six Day War and the Palestinian Authority, which was granted control over Arab urban areas as part of the peace talks. Israel took this area from Jordan, which relinquished its claim to it in 1988. As a result, while Israel does not have a UN-sanctioned right to the West Bank, there is no party that has a more immediate claim. Therefore, while the preceding three frames make it seem as if the Palestinians have lost a huge proportion of land over which they previously enjoyed sole control, in reality the Palestinians control more land now than ever before.

The Palestinians should have their own state, it is the right thing to do and the best resolution to this conflict. However, attempts to fabricate a historical precedent for such a state, of which this map is one example, are so deliberately misleading as to warrant being designated as propaganda. Only someone without a clear grasp of the actual history of the region would buy into the claims made in this map, which is why I stated that such a person lacks credibility.

if only i could still argue over the internet lol

I understand you are a poker player, but probably not a very good one because thats a horrible bluff.

First of all I said I sympasize with the palestinian people who are here beeing under illegal occupation by Israel, but that doesnt mean I cant critize the rockets attacks. Of course I can! Let me just remind you thou, that if Hamas missiles only targeted israeli military it would be 100% legally. Sadly they dont, and even if they did change their charter, Israel has divided and split the palestine people / politicians so much that they wouldnt have any control on who fired at what anyway.

I asked you to provide your own map since you didnt like the 2 maps already in the thread. Im suprised you pretend to have all this deep information about them, but yet still can seem to provide a correct map of your own. You say the palestinian people have more land now that they ever do and the third map - which is also the most scary one out of the 3 - is the correct one. Well isnt that sad ? If you dont already know, map 2 which shows the borders from before 1967 is the borders which are ment by UN to be, and UN in resolution 242 "land conquered by war" demands Israel to withdraw to their original borders, and work for palestine to get their own state on the remaining land. UN has implisively stated that Israels land outside 1967 is illegally occupied, even Ariel Sharon admits this is the case. So why would you debate on this subject? The arabic states proposed in 2002 that they will accept Israels exsistense if they moved back to their original borders from 1967. If Israel is as "peace-loving" as they say they are, why wohnt they accept this suggestion ?

On January 16 2009 17:18 VanDerMeyde wrote: Show nested quote + On January 16 2009 15:50 Parker417 wrote: Yeah i agree that if i was in the situation i proably would be shooting off rockets as well. The whole Israel should be afraid of china/indian/iran I wont fall for it. China, India, USA have a tighter bond then most on the forum think. Indian and America just signed proclamations to work together in nuclear activity's, China and America rely on each other military wise and economy wise. It is widely known in the military intelligence community about America sharing military technology with China. When all the people were like DON'T GO TO CHINA FREE TIBET. Who showed up? Sure that's not evidence that we are friends lol but it just shows that this world puts on alot of fasades that we all don't see. My thoughts are like serious scattered but I kinda dont want to write a professional article on World Affairs and how we are truly all friends minus a few countries. China Is lending money to American in the trillions not because they want to buy are country but so they can show the bond and relationship that we truly share. We are so interconnected in nearly every notion that when people say the next super power is china and blah blah blah. Sure in 50 years because China just had its industrialization period. End of rant/spew You missed my point a little bit, I didnt mean that China or India will attack Israel by any means, im just saying that China or India will not blindly support Israel the same way as USA is now. And this is very dangerous for Israel if they dont start making peace with arabic nations in the small window chance they have now.

but they wont hate them either. China and India wont have a stance because if they did have a viewpoint it could cause rifts in other relationships. I think i did miss your point and now i see what you were getting at.

who gives a shit

world would probably be better off if that whole region annihilated e/o

and the Palestinians are pretty retarded for trying to even fight what is happening to them. Blindly firing rockets while getting shit on by top US military armament

niggas got jacked for their land and cant do shit about it. cut your losses

I also dont get the criticism about one-sided, I've been in several debates where "supporters of israel" have claimed that I don't show enough sympathy with israeli civilians, only palestinians

if I were to share my sympathies in a balanced way, I'd mention palestinian sufferings about 300 times more frequently than israeli. it's more like 10:1.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/meast/01/17/saudi.child.marriage/index.html

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bump for bear :3

it's pretty clear the american revolutionaries would be "terrorists" by todays standards.

shit in boston we celebrate the "tea party" which involved destroying a british cargo ship more or less

yep this is absolutely true. in fact most revolutionaries and many whom are considered heroes today would be considered terrorists by their contemporary establishments