Gaza Strip - Page 18

VanDerMeyde I know its a long documentary but I really wish you would watch this and comment on it, please use 1 hour 40 minutes of your life for this:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-871902797772997781

One of the guys in it is a former muslim terrorist, I would really like to know what you think about this. It raises some very important questions, that we have to find an answer to very soon. If you are concerned about our future, this movie is very important

On January 14 2009 12:47 Tien wrote: OMG PLEASE CLOSE THIS THREAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! PEOPLE ARE CHALLENGING MY IDIOTIC BELIEFS AND I FEAR THEY MAY BE RIGHT AND DON'T WANT TO ACTUALLY DO ANY RESEARCH! CLOSE THIS THREAD NOW SO IT CAN BE AS CLOSED AS MY MIND!!!!!!!!1

fyp

On January 14 2009 22:41 Zorglub wrote: Israel is a bastard apartheid zionist ruler, now please tell me where to find these compassionate Islamic countries that guarantees human rights, freedom of religion, democracy and peace for every one, where are these good islamic samaritans who would never do what Israel does? After all, Islamic countries are very well known world wide for their peace and human rights and respect for other human beeings and religions right?

+1, don't bother trying to get VanDerMeyd to watch the documentary, given his previous responses in this thread I doubt he'd bother.

This is not Islam btw. Zorg.
In Islam one of the biggest sins is suicide NO MATTER the cause.

Just to give you an idea how many Muslims are ignorant on the issue.
What is allowed in terms of war and suicide it is what is called "suicide mission" Like D-Day in WWII
There are some conditions that are ALSO stated.
You shouldnt know who will end your life.
You shouldnt know when your life will end.
You shouldnt know how your life will end.

These three MUST be true in order to classify something as not a suicide.


What drives this war is ignorant on both sides.

On January 14 2009 22:31 TedHastings wrote: Show nested quote + On January 14 2009 20:42 Baal wrote: Really man, be really critical about it, you must aknowledge USA's hostily thowards the zone truth is that these people are living in terrible conditions of poverty, if you add to that mix opression, stealing of lands and constant pressure for foreigners its obvious they are going to blow up and willing to give their lifes against a common enemy. Just because I am critical of Hamas and the Arab governments does not mean I support all US actions, in fact contrary to the apparent majority opinion it is totally standard in this country to criticize the US's actions during the Cold War and we hear all the time about how we fucked up the Middle East and Latin America through our short sighted policies. I do think however that Hamas and the Arab governments have more to do with the suffering of the Palestinian people and that's why I have been focusing on them. Bold comment is so sick.   On January 14 2009 20:22 SpasticInk wrote: it's called ethnic cleansing + Show Spoiler + These maps suffer from not showing shades of gray. The unclear and arbitrary designations "Jewish/Israeli land" and "Palestinian land" make it more suitable as a propaganda piece. Also as I made clear earlier it was the Palestinians who rejected the UN partition plan, the Israelis were more than willing to accept it.

Agreed Hamas are religious zealots idiots, so are Israelites and so are fundamental christians who elected and supported Geroge Bush.

But why are we focusing on Hamas i dont get it? we normaly would focus on the guy who is doing MORE HARM... that being probably the US, then Israel then Arabs.

On January 15 2009 01:15 capaneo wrote: This is not Islam btw. Zorg. In Islam one of the biggest sins is suicide NO MATTER the cause. Just to give you an idea how many Muslims are ignorant on the issue. What is allowed in terms of war and suicide it is what is called "suicide mission" Like D-Day in WWII There are some conditions that are ALSO stated. You shouldnt know who will end your life. You shouldnt know when your life will end. You shouldnt know how your life will end. These three MUST be true in order to classify something as not a suicide. What drives this war is ignorant on both sides.

I dont get this, what is not Islam? the Gaza conflict?

Suicide is a sin yes, but killing the enemy at the cost of your own life is not a sin, thats why we have the martyr suicide bombers

Normally I would agree to focus on the one doing more harm, but in some cases intent to do harm is just as bad as doing it

How many people so far have killed themselves as a jihad or fatwa?

How many muslims are in this world?


thank you.

On January 15 2009 05:16 Baal wrote: How many people so far have killed themselves as a jihad or fatwa? How many muslims are in this world? thank you.

I dont know, but intent to do harm is just as bad as doing it

Thats is why you get punished for planning a murder even if you never got the chance to commit it

approx 1.1 - 1.2 billion

you are welcome

On January 15 2009 02:34 Baal wrote: But why are we focusing on Hamas i dont get it? we normaly would focus on the guy who is doing MORE HARM... that being probably the US, then Israel then Arabs.

Well this is the main source of disagreement. While I believe that all sides involved are far from perfect, it is my opinion that the Israelis and Fatah were approaching a point where negotiations were becoming civilized enough to hope for the possibility of a two-state compromise and lasting peace. In a process that was moving forward, albeit at a glacial pace, the election of Hamas and their actions in Gaza represent a giant step backwards and a significant threat to global stability.

Palestinians voting in Hamas is comparable to Americans electing George W Bush, to put it in terms you guys will understand

Zorglub you need to recognize that there are distinctions within Islam like there are within Christianity and Judaism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salafism_jihadism

my grandpa just emailed me this slideshow about the history of the palastenian conflict, obviously it is biased so I ask you, are there ommissions or inconsistencies?

http://fun.mivzakon.co.il/flash/video/2664/2664.html

In that map you showed of israels occupation of palistenian land, it shows jerusalem bethelhem etc being on palestinian land before 1967, does anybody know what the population looked like and how it was governed and what happened to the population during and after these conflicts?

On January 14 2009 23:54 Zorglub wrote: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-871902797772997781

thx

On January 15 2009 06:39 TedHastings wrote: Show nested quote + On January 15 2009 02:34 Baal wrote: But why are we focusing on Hamas i dont get it? we normaly would focus on the guy who is doing MORE HARM... that being probably the US, then Israel then Arabs. Well this is the main source of disagreement. While I believe that all sides involved are far from perfect, it is my opinion that the Israelis and Fatah were approaching a point where negotiations were becoming civilized enough to hope for the possibility of a two-state compromise and lasting peace. In a process that was moving forward, albeit at a glacial pace, the election of Hamas and their actions in Gaza represent a giant step backwards and a significant threat to global stability.

You have to realize how someone like ball thinks. Israel kills more people therefore they're bad. All these meaningless "facts" that you stupid Americans keep coming up with (using civilians as human shields etc) are not relevant since Chavez doesn't like jooz either and thats good enough for me.

On January 15 2009 05:16 Baal wrote: How many people so far have killed themselves as a jihad or fatwa? How many muslims are in this world? thank you.

the answer to both questions is "too many"

ok that last comment was just to piss off ball (as are most of my comments nowadays) hopefully he gets pissed off before reading this one

On January 15 2009 10:32 obender wrote: my grandpa just emailed me this slideshow about the history of the palastenian conflict, obviously it is biased so I ask you, are there ommissions or inconsistencies? http://fun.mivzakon.co.il/flash/video/2664/2664.html

Interesting presentation. I'd be interested too if the "other side" pointed out how this is wrong/false/biased regarding its facts/references

On January 15 2009 06:54 TedHastings wrote: Zorglub you need to recognize that there are distinctions within Islam like there are within Christianity and Judaism. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salafism_jihadism

I know, and its only a small percentage of muslims who are radical, but this religion has far more radicals than other religions and it is the fastest growing religion too, growing more than the population on earth.

In the movie I posted they said it this way "there are many moderate and peaceful muslims but there is no moderate and peaceful Quran" and that is the problem in my eyes, moderate muslims can not condemn the actions of the radical muslims because if you read the Quran litterally, like you are supposed to do because it litterally is the word of god, the radicals always have it on their side

Maybe that is why we never see the moderate muslims protest in the streets and condemn it when the radicals commit terrorist acts and kill tons of civilians

On January 15 2009 11:11 Jelle wrote: Show nested quote + On January 14 2009 23:54 Zorglub wrote: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-871902797772997781 thx

Did you watch it?
Are there any blatant incorrect information or rediculous claims in it in your eyes?
I really hope someone can debunk it convincingly, but I can not myself, and so far I did not find anyone on google or wiki that could