On January 13 2009 16:32 VanDerMeyde wrote:
900 palestinian killed against 3 israeli after war started on Gaza
300 : 1
What Israel is doing now is very dangerous for Israel's future. Its gonna build up a lot of hatred and recruiting to extremists. Not only from palestines but from other countries as well. The world might look different 50 years form now and I see some extreme cultures uses Israel/Palestine conflict as an excuse for their actions.
It is very important now that Israel is making peace with the arabic world by moving back to its original borders from before 1967, works for 2 state solution etc while USA / Europe and Israel still can guarantee for Israels safety. We might regret not doing this in 50 year, take my word (Well this is a famous Norwegian politician called "Kåre Willochs" words anyway, but everyone need to hear them, ESPECIALLY friends of Israel)
From 2000 to 2007 Hamas killed 542 civilians in suicide bombings, and wounded and maimed additional thousands of civilians
oh rly?????
because 4,897 palestinian have died since sep 2000 according to the Israeli Newspaper Ma'ariv.
Hamas was created by Israel in hope to cause complete chaos for PLO. When Hamas tried to develop politically into more moderate Israel splitted the group. They were also elected and won the palestines democractic election, the palestine people viewed them as freedom fighters and Hamas contributed with humanitary work in the palestine areas, sadly things have changed with time. Im just gonna remind you that all history has shown that different areas in the world where the infrastructure is missing, people lives with death and destruction, its gonna get chaos. And chaos is what you have in the palestine areas. Its acctually almost a miracle its not worse
Israel must stop using Hamas actions as an excuse to not make peace with palestines / arabic states or its gonna be very very dangerous for Israel in future. Israel absolutely have to make peace and negotiate with the arabic states getting them to accept Israels right to existence within its original borders from 1967 or Israel will have a problem when USA loses the position they have today. What they are doing today gives extreme groups in f.example Iran a "reason" to grow. This subject is starting to hurry. ISRAEL MUST ACT NOW
On January 13 2009 16:32 VanDerMeyde wrote:
900 palestinian killed against 3 israeli after war started on Gaza
300 : 1
What Israel is doing now is very dangerous for Israel's future. Its gonna build up a lot of hatred and recruiting to extremists. Not only from palestines but from other countries as well. The world might look different 50 years form now and I see some extreme cultures uses Israel/Palestine conflict as an excuse for their actions.
It is very important now that Israel is making peace with the arabic world by moving back to its original borders from before 1967, works for 2 state solution etc while USA / Europe and Israel still can guarantee for Israels safety. We might regret not doing this in 50 year, take my word (Well this is a famous Norwegian politician called "Kåre Willochs" words anyway, but everyone need to hear them, ESPECIALLY friends of Israel)
From 2000 to 2007 Hamas killed 542 civilians in suicide bombings, and wounded and maimed additional thousands of civilians
oh rly?????
because 4,897 palestinian have died since sep 2000 according to the Israeli Newspaper Ma'ariv.
here is a breakdown of the deaths in the conflict
Yes really, this is not a football game so who killed the most doesnt really matter
If Hamas had the same weapons Israel have they would have killed as many Israelis as they could, they would not have spared any civilian lives at all, they would have killed every man, woman and child in Israel and they are not even trying to hide that fact. Their lack of modern efficient weapons is no fucking excuse for their ill will, They want all israelis dead and that is what matters
Its totally fucking stupid of Hamas to keep attacking when they know they are going to get beat up, and then when they get their ass kicked they start crying to the international community, wtf did they expect when they send 3000 rockets over the border and keep on doing it?
Hamas wants palestinian casualties because it makes them stronger both within palestine and in the international community, so they keep attacking and provoking until Israel lose its patience. That is also the reason why they attack from civilian areas and schools, hide in ambulances, store weapons in mosques etc. They want their own people dead to help their cause
And they will probably keep on doing this until they are wiped off the map
I started out with nothing and I still got most of it left
Zorgluc, let me remind you that through history, the occupant has always claimed the occupated to be "terrorist" and therefor refuse to go into negotiations with them. British did it with their colonies, French did it, Americans did it. If you want to get peace, enemies HAVE to meet and talk. Read Nelson Mandela. And it must be Israel taking the initiative for this because Israel is the strong part in this conflict. And as I already mentioned, for us that care about Israels future and civilians, they absolute have to act now while arabic states are still willing to accept Israel exsistense if they meet the requirement of going back into their original borders from before 1967.
A lot of the people claiming to be "Israels friends" is doing Israel a massive disfavour by encouraging them with their illegal occupation and not respecting UN-resolutions that will secure Israel in the future when USA / Europe dont have the position we have today.
lol Zorgblub are u sure you are from Denmark and not from rural USA?
So lets say some mexicans hate USA so they throw rocks at the police border, killing a patrol officer... should the USA army retaliate and kill 340 habitants of the zone?.
And yeah palestinians are going to get raped and they know it, that should give u an idea of how things are, these guys are so fed up with Israels genocide that they are willing to throw their lives away in an almost futile attempt to free themselves.
You are an idiot if you think these people want their own to die, they are their friends and family you are just buying what the stupid american media makes you swallow, they do use these tactics because its the only way to fight, if they dressed in an uniform in an open field they would be wiped out in a second by the massive Israeli army.
Also what you forget to mention Baal, is that Israel is systematicly making living conditions badly for these people and pretty much guarantee hatred to growth and recruting to extremist and violating against Israel to the max.
- Wall, condamned by UN and Haag, that is builded far outside Israeli borders - probably a part of the bigger plan to steal more land
- Settlers and settlements placed illegally on land they dont own. Numerous UN-resolutions about this subject ignored by Israel. It cannot be long therm peace with arabic countries and palestines as long as these illegal settlers are placed where they are. A 2 state solution for the palestines its absolutely CRUCIAL that the settlement areas is given to the palestines if there is gonna be any hope AT ALL for this to work.
- Illegal occupation of palestinian territory - UN resolution 242 about "land occupied by war"
- Blokkade and 700 checkpoints that make every day for Hamas and palestinian very hard, its no food, no water, no electricy and no job to get in these godforgotten areas. Its a miracle the palestinian infrastructure havent collapsed completely already, thou its on its way to by totally collapsed.
- Systematic kills and massacres on palestine people.
On January 13 2009 20:15 VanDerMeyde wrote:
Zorgluc, let me remind you that through history, the occupant has always claimed the occupated to be "terrorist" and therefor refuse to go into negotiations with them. British did it with their colonies, French did it, Americans did it. If you want to get peace, enemies HAVE to meet and talk. Read Nelson Mandela. And it must be Israel taking the initiative for this because Israel is the strong part in this conflict. And as I already mentioned, for us that care about Israels future and civilians, they absolute have to act now while arabic states are still willing to accept Israel exsistense if they meet the requirement of going back into their original borders from before 1967.
A lot of the people claiming to be "Israels friends" is doing Israel a massive disfavour by encouraging them with their illegal occupation and not respecting UN-resolutions that will secure Israel in the future when USA / Europe dont have the position we have today.
Yes I dont really care if they are freedom fighters or terrorist, what I am saying is how can you ever make peace with someone who only wants you dead? It is simply not possible as long as that is their goal, and because they are radical muslims I have my doubts they will ever change this ultimate goal because if you interpret the quran in a radical way, the ultimate goal is for Islam to rule earth and every one who does not believe in Islam must be killed
I started out with nothing and I still got most of it left
"saying is how can you ever make peace with someone who only wants you dead?"
I answered this in the reply you quoted from and several times before in this thread. If you ever want peace for Israeli, Hamas (which was founded by Israel to create chaos for PLO) and Israel has to talk, and Israel beeing the strong part has the biggest responsibility to make this happen. Read Nelson Mandela and study the history about the European colonies
On January 13 2009 20:28 Baal wrote:
lol Zorgblub are u sure you are from Denmark and not from rural USA?
So lets say some mexicans hate USA so they throw rocks at the police border, killing a patrol officer... should the USA army retaliate and kill 340 habitants of the zone?.
And yeah palestinians are going to get raped and they know it, that should give u an idea of how things are, these guys are so fed up with Israels genocide that they are willing to throw their lives away in an almost futile attempt to free themselves.
You are an idiot if you think these people want their own to die, they are their friends and family you are just buying what the stupid american media makes you swallow, they do use these tactics because its the only way to fight, if they dressed in an uniform in an open field they would be wiped out in a second by the massive Israeli army.
You are the idiot here, Hamas can never win this war if they dont get the international communities help and they know it, they get more support both locally and internationally every time innocent palestinians are getting killed. Thats is the reason why they they wear no uniforms, use civilian buildings to attack from, hide weapons and bomb among civilians etc, these guys are not that stupid, they know it will mean more civilian casualties and that is why they are doing it. Most of the leaders are not even in palestine, they are hiding in Syria and Lebanon.
Zorglub, dont you see that all these extreme powers and hatred against Israel is a result of all the apartheid caused by Israel against civilian palestines that I described more detailed in earlier posts ?
On January 13 2009 20:41 VanDerMeyde wrote:
"saying is how can you ever make peace with someone who only wants you dead?"
I answered this in the reply you quoted from and several times before in this thread. If you ever want peace for Israeli, Hamas (which was founded by Israel to create chaos for PLO) and Israel has to talk, and Israel beeing the strong part has the biggest responsibility to make this happen. Read Nelson Mandela and study the history about the European colonies
Yes I know you answered, but that solution was a dream at best, you can not expect one part to do all the confessions and give up a lot of land and security for another part who only wants you dead, that is never going to happen
I started out with nothing and I still got most of it left
On January 13 2009 20:41 VanDerMeyde wrote:
"saying is how can you ever make peace with someone who only wants you dead?"
I answered this in the reply you quoted from and several times before in this thread. If you ever want peace for Israeli, Hamas (which was founded by Israel to create chaos for PLO) and Israel has to talk, and Israel beeing the strong part has the biggest responsibility to make this happen. Read Nelson Mandela and study the history about the European colonies
Yes I know you answered, but that solution was a dream at best, you can not expect one part to do all the confessions and give up a lot of land and security for another part who only wants you dead, that is never going to happen
They are NOT giving up land, they are giving back land they are occupying illegally. An occupation that's condamned by UN and Haag ! Israel has the biggest responsibility here because they are the occupant ! Even Ariel Sharon admits this land is occupied !
On January 13 2009 21:09 VanDerMeyde wrote:
Zorglub, dont you see that all these extreme powers and hatred against Israel is a result of all the apartheid caused by Israel against civilian palestines that I described more detailed in earlier posts ?
Yes I agree that it might be part of the problem, and I agree that Israel could and should do much more on some of those points you mentioned, but I think the other part of the problem is radical Islam and neither you or I or Israel can change that unfortunatly
I started out with nothing and I still got most of it left
On January 13 2009 21:09 VanDerMeyde wrote:
Zorglub, dont you see that all these extreme powers and hatred against Israel is a result of all the apartheid caused by Israel against civilian palestines that I described more detailed in earlier posts ?
Yes I agree that it might be part of the problem, and I agree that Israel could and should do much more on some of those points you mentioned, but I think the other part of the problem is radical Islam and neither you or I or Israel can change that unfortunatly
But the Arabic states are agreeing to accept Israel as a nation as long as they go back to their original borders from 1967.
Israel turned this suggestion down in 2002. This is very very dangerous for Israel in the future. The hope is that the arabic nations is taking this suggestion up again
If Hamas and palestines are so bad human beeings, why have Israeli killed 3x as many palestinians as the other way around. If you look at the statistics, the arabic is killed in 1000's, these statistics is making very little sense to me if the Israeli army is so "human" (dont know this word in english)
:D
Last edit: 13/01/2009 22:29
1
seatown12 United States. Jan 13 2009 22:50. Posts 1193
On January 13 2009 17:43 Sheitan wrote:
You can see it from any angles you want theres no doubt Israel triggered the war by declaring independence before the end of the British mandate... being 1 day or not, arabs ready to invade or not they made the first move.
How does a declaration of independence constitute an act of aggression? This only makes sense if you are from the camp who denies Israel's right even to exist, which would basically put you on an opposite but equal level with the Israeli who wrote that Palestinians are not human beings.
On January 13 2009 19:55 VanDerMeyde wrote: 1. Hamas was created by Israel in hope to cause complete chaos for PLO. When Hamas tried to develop politically into more moderate Israel splitted the group.
2. Zorglub, dont you see that all these extreme powers and hatred against Israel is a result of all the apartheid caused by Israel against civilian palestines that I described more detailed in earlier posts?
1. Please cite your source.
2. This is revisionist and inaccurate. The Arabs and Jews were fighting long before any of the actions you detailed occurred.
On January 13 2009 20:15 VanDerMeyde wrote:
Zorgluc, let me remind you that through history, the occupant has always claimed the occupated to be "terrorist" and therefor refuse to go into negotiations with them. British did it with their colonies, French did it, Americans did it. If you want to get peace, enemies HAVE to meet and talk. Read Nelson Mandela. And it must be Israel taking the initiative for this because Israel is the strong part in this conflict. And as I already mentioned, for us that care about Israels future and civilians, they absolute have to act now while arabic states are still willing to accept Israel exsistense if they meet the requirement of going back into their original borders from before 1967.
A lot of the people claiming to be "Israels friends" is doing Israel a massive disfavour by encouraging them with their illegal occupation and not respecting UN-resolutions that will secure Israel in the future when USA / Europe dont have the position we have today.
Yes I dont really care if they are freedom fighters or terrorist, what I am saying is how can you ever make peace with someone who only wants you dead? It is simply not possible as long as that is their goal, and because they are radical muslims I have my doubts they will ever change this ultimate goal because if you interpret the quran in a radical way, the ultimate goal is for Islam to rule earth and every one who does not believe in Islam must be killed
It is also the ultimate goal of the bible and the torah, god damnit stop playing that card because the other religions are the same.
On January 13 2009 21:09 VanDerMeyde wrote:
Zorglub, dont you see that all these extreme powers and hatred against Israel is a result of all the apartheid caused by Israel against civilian palestines that I described more detailed in earlier posts ?
Yes I agree that it might be part of the problem, and I agree that Israel could and should do much more on some of those points you mentioned, but I think the other part of the problem is radical Islam and neither you or I or Israel can change that unfortunatly
But the Arabic states are agreeing to accept Israel as a nation as long as they go back to their original borders from 1967.
Israel turned this suggestion down. This is very very dangerous for Israel in the future. The hope is that the arabic nations is taking this suggestion up again
If Hamas and palestines are so bad human beeings, why have Israeli killed 3x as many palestinians as the other way around. If you look at the statistics, the arabic is killed in 1000's, these statistics is making very little sense to me if the Israeli army is so "human" (dont know this word in english)
Why do Iran want Israelis dead? Why do Al Queda want Americans dead? Why do radical muslims in London kill 57 innocent people and injure 700? Why do radical muslims kill 3000 innocent people in USA? Why do radical muslims in Madrid kill 191 innocent people and wound another 1,755? Why does Pakistan hate India and vice versa? Where all these radical muslims mistreated by the people they killed?
Maybe it is dangerous for Israel in the future if they dont act now...
Here is my ultimate paranoid fear, I fear this might be the beginning of world war 3, last time we had the great depression and a few years later WW2 started. Now we face the beginning of another great depression, and here is my fear:
If Israel falls and/or the radical muslims dont have that enemy to concentrate on any more, I fear the religious wackos will start their Jihad all around the world and find the next enemy, and they will not stop until Islam rules the earth as their holy book tells them.
Maybe one day it is us or them, we will have to fight no matter what, this might be WW3 but this time a very large portion of the enemy lives inside every country in the world, because as Islam states, every muslim must support other muslims above all, Islam is the most important thing, it goes above nationality, laws and everything.
Islam also says you can lie to non believers and even denounce your religion for a while if it serves a good purpose for Islam so who is who and are the moderates really moderate or just pretending to be for the greater good of Islam?. This time you dont even know who the enemy is, they might be police officers or soldiers or even politicians in your own country, if this war ever happens it is going to be devestating to everyone on this planet.
I hope im just paranoid and I hope we can do something so this scenario will never happen...
I started out with nothing and I still got most of it left
On January 13 2009 20:15 VanDerMeyde wrote:
Zorgluc, let me remind you that through history, the occupant has always claimed the occupated to be "terrorist" and therefor refuse to go into negotiations with them. British did it with their colonies, French did it, Americans did it. If you want to get peace, enemies HAVE to meet and talk. Read Nelson Mandela. And it must be Israel taking the initiative for this because Israel is the strong part in this conflict. And as I already mentioned, for us that care about Israels future and civilians, they absolute have to act now while arabic states are still willing to accept Israel exsistense if they meet the requirement of going back into their original borders from before 1967.
A lot of the people claiming to be "Israels friends" is doing Israel a massive disfavour by encouraging them with their illegal occupation and not respecting UN-resolutions that will secure Israel in the future when USA / Europe dont have the position we have today.
Yes I dont really care if they are freedom fighters or terrorist, what I am saying is how can you ever make peace with someone who only wants you dead? It is simply not possible as long as that is their goal, and because they are radical muslims I have my doubts they will ever change this ultimate goal because if you interpret the quran in a radical way, the ultimate goal is for Islam to rule earth and every one who does not believe in Islam must be killed
It is also the ultimate goal of the bible and the torah, god damnit stop playing that card because the other religions are the same.
Right, tell me where to find the christians who want to kill every one who dont believe and make christianity the only religion on earth, how many are they? how many innocent people have they killed recently?
And besides your point is totally irrelevant in this context, the fact is Hamas wants every Israli dead but Israelis dont want every palestinian dead
I started out with nothing and I still got most of it left
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