Gaza Strip - Page 12

On January 12 2009 21:44 VanDerMeyde wrote: Zorglub, UN has numerous amount of times stated that Israel must withdraw (?) (damn my english sucks) to their original borders from 1967. One of the resolutions typically pointed to is 242 This is what UN is working for exactly what you describe. Trading the borders for peace is what is needed to be done if this conflict is to EVER END. What is the alternative ?

Yea but one of the conditions in resolution 242 is that the palestinians must accept Israel as a sovereign nation and Hamas refuses to do that, they want Israel off the map so as long as they have power, peace is never going to happen

(ii) Termination of all claims or states of belligerency and respect for and acknowledgement of the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of every State in the area and their right to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force

I wish it was possible to ban religion world wide, I am having serious doubt if freedom of religion should even be part of the essential rules of a democracy any more, at least it shouldn't be allowed to mission, to indoctrinate children, to flaunt your religion also state and religion should be completely seperated but of course you can not keep people from practising religion in private

Religion is a plague

I blame religion.

On January 12 2009 21:56 Zorglub wrote: Show nested quote + On January 12 2009 21:44 VanDerMeyde wrote: Zorglub, UN has numerous amount of times stated that Israel must withdraw (?) (damn my english sucks) to their original borders from 1967. One of the resolutions typically pointed to is 242 This is what UN is working for exactly what you describe. Trading the borders for peace is what is needed to be done if this conflict is to EVER END. What is the alternative ? Yea but one of the conditions in resolution 242 is that the palestinians must accept Israel as a sovereign nation and Hamas refuses to do that, they want Israel off the map so as long as they have power, peace is never going to happen (ii) Termination of all claims or states of belligerency and respect for and acknowledgement of the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of every State in the area and their right to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force

So what can we do to get peace then

cap's being serious though.

you couldn't pay me to visit pakistan or bangladesh let alone fuckin' iran.
not for lack of desire but it is a war zone. people who been in a war zone for a hundred years just get bitter overall about people living in peace, let alone when you toss in all kinds of propoganda etc.

everyone's getting mad cause cap is being so "negative" but he's just highlighting that it's an extremely negative situation overall, perhaps even worse than the media would portray.

On January 13 2009 00:15 VanDerMeyde wrote: Show nested quote + On January 12 2009 21:56 Zorglub wrote:   On January 12 2009 21:44 VanDerMeyde wrote: Zorglub, UN has numerous amount of times stated that Israel must withdraw (?) (damn my english sucks) to their original borders from 1967. One of the resolutions typically pointed to is 242 This is what UN is working for exactly what you describe. Trading the borders for peace is what is needed to be done if this conflict is to EVER END. What is the alternative ? Yea but one of the conditions in resolution 242 is that the palestinians must accept Israel as a sovereign nation and Hamas refuses to do that, they want Israel off the map so as long as they have power, peace is never going to happen (ii) Termination of all claims or states of belligerency and respect for and acknowledgement of the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of every State in the area and their right to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force So what can we do to get peace then

If I knew that I would be a nobel prize winner

On January 13 2009 00:54 Zorglub wrote: Show nested quote + On January 13 2009 00:15 VanDerMeyde wrote:   On January 12 2009 21:56 Zorglub wrote:   On January 12 2009 21:44 VanDerMeyde wrote: Zorglub, UN has numerous amount of times stated that Israel must withdraw (?) (damn my english sucks) to their original borders from 1967. One of the resolutions typically pointed to is 242 This is what UN is working for exactly what you describe. Trading the borders for peace is what is needed to be done if this conflict is to EVER END. What is the alternative ? Yea but one of the conditions in resolution 242 is that the palestinians must accept Israel as a sovereign nation and Hamas refuses to do that, they want Israel off the map so as long as they have power, peace is never going to happen (ii) Termination of all claims or states of belligerency and respect for and acknowledgement of the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of every State in the area and their right to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force So what can we do to get peace then If I knew that I would be a nobel prize winner

What do you think about "my" suggestion then ?

Do you feel its Anti-israel ?

I have a question for you VanDerMeyde, does moderate Islam exist?

How can you be a muslim but not do what the quran says, if you dont do what it says you are not a muslim, so it says, isn't moderate Islam contradictory in itself?

Moderate Islam can only be created by means of renouncing that which Islam has always been. But, on those terms, can the result still be Islam? The fundamental point is that Islam cannot reform itself in any lasting way, because Islam has no source of authority apart from the quran and in any debate between hard-liners and moderates, the hard-liners will have the quran on their side and will ultimately win the debate.

If moderate Islam can not exist, every muslims ultimate goal is to kill us infidels so Islam can rule the world like the quran says it will.

Somehow we have to make moderate Islam possible, I dont know how but if we dont it will eventually some day be either us or them

On January 13 2009 01:08 VanDerMeyde wrote: Show nested quote + On January 13 2009 00:54 Zorglub wrote:   On January 13 2009 00:15 VanDerMeyde wrote:   On January 12 2009 21:56 Zorglub wrote:   On January 12 2009 21:44 VanDerMeyde wrote: Zorglub, UN has numerous amount of times stated that Israel must withdraw (?) (damn my english sucks) to their original borders from 1967. One of the resolutions typically pointed to is 242 This is what UN is working for exactly what you describe. Trading the borders for peace is what is needed to be done if this conflict is to EVER END. What is the alternative ? Yea but one of the conditions in resolution 242 is that the palestinians must accept Israel as a sovereign nation and Hamas refuses to do that, they want Israel off the map so as long as they have power, peace is never going to happen (ii) Termination of all claims or states of belligerency and respect for and acknowledgement of the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of every State in the area and their right to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force So what can we do to get peace then If I knew that I would be a nobel prize winner What do you think about "my" suggestion then ? Do you feel its Anti-israel ?

Please quote your suggestion again, but as long as Hamas wants to exterminate Israel the only possible solution I see right now is either Hamas kill every Israeli or Israel kill every Hamas, but I dont even think that is possible for any one of them to do...

On January 11 2009 08:37 VanDerMeyde wrote: Sorry if my english sux, but at least you get the points: If Israel really is interested in peace, why dont they do whats obvious and what UN time after time after time says they MUST do: - Go back to its original borders from before 1967 - Stop placing own settlers on land they dont own, this is a warcrime - Stop the illegal occupation - Stop the inhuman blokkade on palestinian areas which lead to extremly poor conditions in the palestinian areas - Tear down the wall that they have builded FAR outside the original borders they were given - Work for 2 state solution with the palestines - Stop working against all UN-directives given - Negotiate international guarantees for their people There is NOTHING ANTI-ISRAEL AT ALL about these UN directives given, and its the only thing that really can give civilian israelies and civilian palestines peace. If Israels strategy to enter one of the most populated areas in the world with their heavy war marchine was a successfull strategy, this war would have been over A LONG, LONG TIME AGO.

On January 13 2009 00:54 Zorglub wrote: Show nested quote + On January 13 2009 00:15 VanDerMeyde wrote:   On January 12 2009 21:56 Zorglub wrote:   On January 12 2009 21:44 VanDerMeyde wrote: Zorglub, UN has numerous amount of times stated that Israel must withdraw (?) (damn my english sucks) to their original borders from 1967. One of the resolutions typically pointed to is 242 This is what UN is working for exactly what you describe. Trading the borders for peace is what is needed to be done if this conflict is to EVER END. What is the alternative ? Yea but one of the conditions in resolution 242 is that the palestinians must accept Israel as a sovereign nation and Hamas refuses to do that, they want Israel off the map so as long as they have power, peace is never going to happen (ii) Termination of all claims or states of belligerency and respect for and acknowledgement of the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of every State in the area and their right to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force So what can we do to get peace then If I knew that I would be a nobel prize winner

The solution is not foundin a state of jews in the middle of the arab world, same reason why you dont found a huge ass black community in the middle or rural alabama.

Well Zorglub, my honest opinion about religions, not only islam, is gonna upset a lot of people both "pro-palestines" and "pro-israeli". I personally believe that religion is bullshit and its just copy/paste from Horus the sungod of Egypt.

Christianity is believed to be more human than Islam, but we have the crusades... I personally believe that Christianity has taken longer steps as a religion than Islam, based on observations / articles / media. But anyway, religion = slavery for me. More people have been killed in the name of God than for any other reason. I agree with you that Islam is bullshit and its scary that so many people just automaticly are forced to believe in it. But I dont agree that Christianity is that much better.

The Coran do say that "murder is a sin". But you dont have to look longer than 9/11, middle-east, crusades, Ireland to see how seriously the religious folks take "thou shall not kill". Its negotiable, it depends. It depends on who is doing the killing and who is getting killed. "You believe in God? Yes. Do you believe in my god? No. My God has a bigger dick than your God!"

I think those terms are a bit one-sided, it might have a small chance if Israel really did all that but it only takes one radical muslim longing for 72 virgins to screw it all up, and I am 95% sure there would be at least one unfortunately.

Look at it from an Israeli standpoint, what happens if they did all that and they still dont get peace, they would have to kill and get killed in large numbers to regain the security they had, it is quite a gamble

But they could do some of the things without gambling with their security, like removing the stupid settlers and stop protecting them if they keep doing it fx.

On January 13 2009 01:28 Baal wrote: Show nested quote + On January 13 2009 00:54 Zorglub wrote:   On January 13 2009 00:15 VanDerMeyde wrote:   On January 12 2009 21:56 Zorglub wrote:   On January 12 2009 21:44 VanDerMeyde wrote: Zorglub, UN has numerous amount of times stated that Israel must withdraw (?) (damn my english sucks) to their original borders from 1967. One of the resolutions typically pointed to is 242 This is what UN is working for exactly what you describe. Trading the borders for peace is what is needed to be done if this conflict is to EVER END. What is the alternative ? Yea but one of the conditions in resolution 242 is that the palestinians must accept Israel as a sovereign nation and Hamas refuses to do that, they want Israel off the map so as long as they have power, peace is never going to happen (ii) Termination of all claims or states of belligerency and respect for and acknowledgement of the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of every State in the area and their right to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force So what can we do to get peace then If I knew that I would be a nobel prize winner The solution is not foundin a state of jews in the middle of the arab world, same reason why you dont found a huge ass black community in the middle or rural alabama.

60 years too late for that unfortunatly

On January 13 2009 01:31 VanDerMeyde wrote: Well Zorglub, my honest opinion about religions, not only islam, is gonna upset a lot of people both "pro-palestines" and "pro-israeli". I personally believe that religion is bullshit and its just copy/paste from Horus the sungod of Egypt. Christianity is believed to be more human than Islam, but we have the crusades... I personally believe that Christianity has taken longer steps as a religion than Islam, based on observations / articles / media. But anyway, religion = slavery for me. More people have been killed in the name of God than for any other reason. I agree with you that Islam is bullshit and its scary that so many people just automaticly are forced to believe in it. But I dont agree that Christianity is that much better. The Coran do say that "murder is a sin". But you dont have to look longer than 9/11, middle-east, crusades, Ireland to see how seriously the religious folks take "thou shall not kill". Its negotiable, it depends. It depends on who is doing the killing and who is getting killed. "You believe in God? Yes. Do you believe in my god? No. My God has a bigger dick than your God!"

The quran has a catch though, it is only a sin to murder a believer, infidels like us can be killed without sinning. In fact the quran encourages it:

"Anyone who kills a believer intentionally will have his reward in hell, to remain there. God will be angry with him and curse him, and prepare awful torment for him. Islam. Qur'an 4.92"

"fight and slay the pagans (or infidels or unbelievers) wherever you find them?" (9:5)

"Those who believe fight in the cause of God, and those who reject Faith Fight in the cause of Evil: So fight ye against the friends of Satan: feeble indeed is the cunning of Satan."

Mohammed said, "I have been ordered to fight with the people till they say, none has the right to be worshipped but Allah" (Al Bukhari vol. 4:196).

sura 5:51: "O you who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: they are but friends and protectors to each other. And he among you that turns to them for friendship is of them." This friendship makes any Muslim a enemy of their own and deserving of the same fate as the unbeliever. This is because God does not guide an unjust people.

Sura3 3:64: "Verily Allah has cursed the Unbelievers (whom he defined as Christians in the 5th surah "Believers, take not Jews and Christians for your friends.) and has prepared for them a Blazing Fire to dwell in forever. No protector will they find, nor savior. That Day their faces will be turned upside down in the Fire. They will say: "Woe to us! We should have obeyed Allah and obeyed the Messenger!" "Our Lord! Give them double torment and curse them with a very great Curse!""

On January 13 2009 01:52 Zorglub wrote: Show nested quote + On January 13 2009 01:31 VanDerMeyde wrote: Well Zorglub, my honest opinion about religions, not only islam, is gonna upset a lot of people both "pro-palestines" and "pro-israeli". I personally believe that religion is bullshit and its just copy/paste from Horus the sungod of Egypt. Christianity is believed to be more human than Islam, but we have the crusades... I personally believe that Christianity has taken longer steps as a religion than Islam, based on observations / articles / media. But anyway, religion = slavery for me. More people have been killed in the name of God than for any other reason. I agree with you that Islam is bullshit and its scary that so many people just automaticly are forced to believe in it. But I dont agree that Christianity is that much better. The Coran do say that "murder is a sin". But you dont have to look longer than 9/11, middle-east, crusades, Ireland to see how seriously the religious folks take "thou shall not kill". Its negotiable, it depends. It depends on who is doing the killing and who is getting killed. "You believe in God? Yes. Do you believe in my god? No. My God has a bigger dick than your God!" The quran has a catch though, it is only a sin to murder a believer, infidels like us can be killed without sinning. In fact the quran encourages it: "Anyone who kills a believer intentionally will have his reward in hell, to remain there. God will be angry with him and curse him, and prepare awful torment for him. Islam. Qur'an 4.92" "fight and slay the pagans (or infidels or unbelievers) wherever you find them?" (9:5) "Those who believe fight in the cause of God, and those who reject Faith Fight in the cause of Evil: So fight ye against the friends of Satan: feeble indeed is the cunning of Satan." Mohammed said, "I have been ordered to fight with the people till they say, none has the right to be worshipped but Allah" (Al Bukhari vol. 4:196). sura 5:51: "O you who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: they are but friends and protectors to each other. And he among you that turns to them for friendship is of them." This friendship makes any Muslim a enemy of their own and deserving of the same fate as the unbeliever. This is because God does not guide an unjust people. Sura3 3: 64: "Verily Allah has cursed the Unbelievers (whom he defined as Christians in the 5th surah "Believers, take not Jews and Christians for your friends.) and has prepared for them a Blazing Fire to dwell in forever. No protector will they find, nor savior. That Day their faces will be turned upside down in the Fire. They will say: "Woe to us! We should have obeyed Allah and obeyed the Messenger!" "Our Lord! Give them double torment and curse them with a very great Curse!""

Old testament verse:

Deut 13: 6 If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which [is] as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers;
13: 7 [Namely], of the gods of the people which [are] round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the [one] end of the earth even unto the [other] end of the earth;
13:8 Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him:
13: 9 But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people.



you fail

Will you ever grow up Baal and be able to discuss stuff on a mature level?

Did I ever say killing was not allowed in other religions or that I condone any religions at all?

If so please quote me, if not then YOU FAIL

On January 13 2009 02:36 Zorglub wrote: Will you ever grow up Baal and be able to discuss stuff on a mature level?

Did I ever say killing was not allowed in other religions or that I condone any religions at all?

Yup thats what I thought, you always deliver

of course moderate islam can exist, a huge majority of muslims are moderate
what you need is a secular state..

the country with the by far most muslims in the world isnt even in the middle east, and its a country with no mention of islam in the constitution.. there's also a very small degree of religious strife there.