Gaza Strip - Page 10

A poll, conducted by the Harry S. Truman Research Institute for the Advancement of Peace at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem and the PCPSR found that 57% of Palestinian Arabs support terrorist attacks upon Israeli civilians, three-quarters of Palestinian Arabs support the kidnapping of Israeli soldiers in a bid to obtain the release of jailed Palestinians terrorists and 63% are inspired by the Lebanese Islamist terror group Hizballah and seek to emulate it ( Jerusalem Post, September 26). A further poll produced by the Jerusalem Media and Communications Center (JMCC) (September 19-22) showed that nearly half of all Palestinian Arabs (48%) support suicide bombings against Israeli civilians and 59.3% support copying Hizballah’s tactics. Yet a further poll, conducted by Center for Opinion Polls and Survey Studies at An-Najah University (September 7-9), found that 61.3% of Palestinian Arab s support terrorist attacks upon Israeli civilians and 52.5% support rocket attacks upon Israeli population centers.

This is an unacceptable viewpoint in the 21st century regardless of other circumstances....

On January 12 2009 05:38 Baal wrote: i wonder if i should ban that scumbag for saying palestinians are not people, racism is not tolerated in this site, so do it again and you are gone, ill let it slip this time cuz ur ignorance and bias in this is obviously strong.

so i take it you'll be banning these 2 fools:

On January 11 2009 17:47 brambolius wrote: Show nested quote + On January 11 2009 17:07 tester1 wrote: But then the jews will increase in population no? The man's got a point lool

On January 12 2009 15:17 Baal wrote: Show nested quote + On January 12 2009 08:57 Kingsane wrote: You know what Mister BaaL ? .. you are right , im an idiot , clueless and israel is all terrorist and we're targeting as many schools as we can , we love to kill children. you can proceed now to banning kid. edit: also im done with this stupid thread there's no sense talking about this in a poker forum anyway Wait, i destroy your pathetic argument, own the fuck out of you giving proof of hate indocrination on israeli kids, pretty much chew you and spit you out and this is your reply? LOL. And dont play the victim here dumbass, i threatened to ban you if you continued adressing palestinian as "not humans" as i said earlier racism is not allowed in our forums, you racist prick.

Ok this is not cool.

Didn't your mother ever teach you not to make of those less fortunate then you Baal?

C'mon, you don't point and laugh at every dissabled person you come across do you ?

edit: also

On January 12 2009 17:58 Roman wrote: A poll, conducted by the Harry S. Truman Research Institute for the Advancement of Peace at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem and the PCPSR found that 57% of Palestinian Arabs support terrorist attacks upon Israeli civilians, three-quarters of Palestinian Arabs support the kidnapping of Israeli soldiers in a bid to obtain the release of jailed Palestinians terrorists and 63% are inspired by the Lebanese Islamist terror group Hizballah and seek to emulate it ( Jerusalem Post, September 26). A further poll produced by the Jerusalem Media and Communications Center (JMCC) (September 19-22) showed that nearly half of all Palestinian Arabs (48%) support suicide bombings against Israeli civilians and 59.3% support copying Hizballah’s tactics. Yet a further poll, conducted by Center for Opinion Polls and Survey Studies at An-Najah University (September 7-9), found that 61.3% of Palestinian Arab s support terrorist attacks upon Israeli civilians and 52.5% support rocket attacks upon Israeli population centers. This is an unacceptable viewpoint in the 21st century regardless of other circumstances....

way different than the results in the poll drone cited. i wonder why

Understanding this conflict and the roots of it is not really something that can be done from the outside. I think it's a good thing that people want to talk about it and become educated about it but just spouting out opinions and polls doesn't really have much value. I think to gain any real understanding of the issues both current and past you'd have to go there and talk to a lot of people in different positions or see a very well made documentary that covers all the bases through the eyes of the people involved in the situation. I think you'd have to be very foolish to think you could understand the depth and complexity of this conflict without being completely immersed in it for a significant period of time.

On January 12 2009 17:19 Roman wrote: can someone give me some history info. present day Israel belonged to Britian before WWII? It was then 'given' to the Jews? How was this new country created, as in who were considered citizens, it was a democracy yes? what sparked the first conflict between the arab nations and Israel?

The area referred to as "Palestine" was under the control of the Ottoman Empire during WW1 and following their defeat it was put under British rule. As a result partly of WW2 Britain decided they didn't need the hassle of dealing with it and tasked the UN with deciding what to do with it. The UN's suggestion was to establish two states in the area, one for Jews fleeing Europe (there was also a minority already present in the area) and another for the Arab population. The Jews agreed with this plan but the Arabs rejected it, so the UN just gave the Jews the land. As soon as Israel was created, I think even the first day of its existence or something, Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan and Iraq attacked it to try to keep it from ever existing (Arab-Israeli War of 1948). Israel won and as a result of the conflict established what most people today refer to as their "pre-1967 borders". In 1967 Egypt, Syria and Jordan kicked out UN peacekeepers and tarted massing troops along their borders with Israel. Israel pre-emptively attacked and as a result of this conflict (Six-Day War) gained the Golan Heights, Sinai Peninsula, West Bank and Gaza Strip, of which they have returned Sinai to Egypt and Golan Heights to Syria but retain the other two. After losing twice in conventional wars with Israel, the Arab opposition decided to switch tactics and that's when groups like Hezbollah, Hamas, and formerly the PLO rose to prominence.

edit: Basically it comes down to the UN and Western powers thinking they can just arbitrarily split up random parts of the world, Arab leadership stubbornly refusing to accept any Jewish state in the Middle East, and the Israelis severely overreacting to repeated Arab aggression.

On January 12 2009 18:34 Fraser wrote: Show nested quote + On January 12 2009 17:58 Roman wrote: A poll, conducted by the Harry S. Truman Research Institute for the Advancement of Peace at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem and the PCPSR found that 57% of Palestinian Arabs support terrorist attacks upon Israeli civilians, three-quarters of Palestinian Arabs support the kidnapping of Israeli soldiers in a bid to obtain the release of jailed Palestinians terrorists and 63% are inspired by the Lebanese Islamist terror group Hizballah and seek to emulate it ( Jerusalem Post, September 26). A further poll produced by the Jerusalem Media and Communications Center (JMCC) (September 19-22) showed that nearly half of all Palestinian Arabs (48%) support suicide bombings against Israeli civilians and 59.3% support copying Hizballah’s tactics. Yet a further poll, conducted by Center for Opinion Polls and Survey Studies at An-Najah University (September 7-9), found that 61.3% of Palestinian Arab s support terrorist attacks upon Israeli civilians and 52.5% support rocket attacks upon Israeli population centers. This is an unacceptable viewpoint in the 21st century regardless of other circumstances.... way different than the results in the poll drone cited. i wonder why

of course it is you moron. his pole was questioning arabs. this is questioning palestinians.

VanDerMeyde I appreciate that you seem to be concerned first and foremost with the innocent Palestinian citizens, what I think many of us are trying to get across is that this is not a one-sided issue and the Arab leadership has a role in their suffering that may even equal Israel's. When Hamas combatants make the conscious decision to blend in with the populace it has the direct result of making every civilian a suspect, if they were to dress in uniform it would increase their chances of being killed by enemy soldiers but it would also serve to minimize the collateral damage. In essence they are making the cynical decision to accept civilian loss of life in order to further their cause. There are other examples.

The Israeli guy is coming across as pretty crazy, but I'd love it if we were able to get a few posts from a Hamas supporter; would really provide a nice contrast for those of us who have no stake in the conflict.

Baal I don't know why I ever thought you were good at this kind of thing, it seems now like all you have to offer are personal attacks, emotional appeals, and pictures

I don't like how many people assume that Americans don't have access to unbiased news and are all robots led by government propaganda just because we may happen to disagree on specific issues. This kind of denial that others can have well-formed opinions that differ from your own seems like a form of ad hominem attack.

On January 12 2009 18:36 TedHastings wrote: Show nested quote + On January 12 2009 17:19 Roman wrote: can someone give me some history info. present day Israel belonged to Britian before WWII? It was then 'given' to the Jews? How was this new country created, as in who were considered citizens, it was a democracy yes? what sparked the first conflict between the arab nations and Israel? The area referred to as "Palestine" was under the control of the Ottoman Empire during WW1 and following their defeat it was put under British rule. As a result partly of WW2 Britain decided they didn't need the hassle of dealing with it and tasked the UN with deciding what to do with it. The UN's suggestion was to establish two states in the area, one for Jews fleeing Europe (there was also a minority already present in the area) and another for the Arab population. The Jews agreed with this plan but the Arabs rejected it, so the UN just gave the Jews the land. As soon as Israel was created, I think even the first day of its existence or something, Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan and Iraq attacked it to try to keep it from ever existing (Arab-Israeli War of 1948). Israel won and as a result of the conflict established what most people today refer to as their "pre-1967 borders". In 1967 Egypt, Syria and Jordan kicked out UN peacekeepers and tarted massing troops along their borders with Israel. Israel pre-emptively attacked and as a result of this conflict (Six-Day War) gained the Golan Heights, Sinai Peninsula, West Bank and Gaza Strip, of which they have returned Sinai to Egypt and Golan Heights to Syria but retain the other two. After losing twice in conventional wars with Israel, the Arab opposition decided to switch tactics and that's when groups like Hezbollah, Hamas, and formerly the PLO rose to prominence. edit: Basically it comes down to the UN and Western powers thinking they can just arbitrarily split up random parts of the world, Arab leadership stubbornly refusing to accept any Jewish state in the Middle East, and the Israelis severely overreacting to repeated Arab aggression.

UN didn't give the land to the jews, they unilaterally declared the existence of a state, against the UN's recommendations which lead to a war. Im not blindly defending the palestinians but the difference is crucial actually.

Partition - The United Nations Special Commission on Palestine (UNSCOP) recommended that Palestine be divided into an Arab state and a Jewish state. The commission called for Jerusalem to be put under international administration The UN General Assembly adopted this plan on Nov. 29, 1947 as UN Resolution (GA 181), owing to support of both the US and the Soviet Union, and in particular, the personal support of US President Harry S. Truman. Many factors contributed to Truman's decision to support partition, including domestic politics and intense Zionist lobbying, no doubt.

The Jews accepted the UN decision, but the Arabs rejected it. The resolution divided the land into two approximately equal portions in a complicated scheme with zig-zag borders. The intention was an economic union between the two states with open borders. At the time of partition, slightly less than half the land in all of Palestine was owned by Arabs, slightly less than half was "crown lands" belonging to the state, and about 8% was owned by Jews or the Jewish Agency. There were about 600,000 Jews in Palestine, almost all living in the areas allotted to the Jewish state or in the internationalized zone of Jerusalem, and about 1.2 million Arabs. The allocation of land by Resolution 181 was intended to produce two areas with Jewish and Arab majorities respectively. Jerusalem and environs were to be internationalized .


So obv both sides are to blame in the first place, but the jews took the land by force and the conflict escalated to the point we can all see on TV nowadays. What if the arab coalition won the war of independance ? We'd probably be witnessing the same thing with reversed forces and the situation would be at the same point. Except we'd see jewish kids getting bombed on TV no doubt, that crazyness has to stop.

Also it does not help my sympathy for radical muslims that these guys were burning danish flags, raging the streets in Denmark and all over the world attacking police and destroying private property, bombing our embassy and killing people because a danish newspaper printed stupid cartoon pictures of muhammed.

They also celebrated all over the world and here in Denmark when 3000 innocent civilians lost their lives in 9/11. But I have never ever seen them protest when muslim terrorists kill thousands of innocent civilians in terrorist attacks in europe or when muslims kill other muslims like in Iraq.

Here is a recent protest in Denmark over the Israeli conflict:

"down down Denmark"
"down down democracy"
and nazi sieg heil greetings, these are the people we offered asylum in our country and we pay each of them $3000 a month for doing nothing, free healtcare, pensions, education etc.

On January 12 2009 18:53 TedHastings wrote: VanDerMeyde I appreciate that you seem to be concerned first and foremost with the innocent Palestinian citizens, what I think many of us are trying to get across is that this is not a one-sided issue and the Arab leadership has a role in their suffering that may even equal Israel's. When Hamas combatants make the conscious decision to blend in with the populace it has the direct result of making every civilian a suspect, if they were to dress in uniform it would increase their chances of being killed by enemy soldiers but it would also serve to minimize the collateral damage. In essence they are making the cynical decision to accept civilian loss of life in order to further their cause. There are other examples. The Israeli guy is coming across as pretty crazy, but I'd love it if we were able to get a few posts from a Hamas supporter; would really provide a nice contrast for those of us who have no stake in the conflict. Baal I don't know why I ever thought you were good at this kind of thing, it seems now like all you have to offer are personal attacks, emotional appeals, and pictures I don't like how many people assume that Americans don't have access to unbiased news and are all robots led by government propaganda just because we may happen to disagree on specific issues. This kind of denial that others can have well-formed opinions that differ from your own seems like a form of ad hominem attack.

pictures? sorry but my picture was a ridiculously strong rebuttal and pretty much analy raped the douchebag israeli talking about hate indocrination on children, i proved him that the same shit happens in Israel.

And seriously who in this planet is stupid enough to believe that Israeli kids are NOT indocrinated with hatred thowards the arabs?

but it wont stop, this war is as ancient as the old testament.

i like turtles

Sheitan neither of us are 100% correct. The UN acknowledged in their recommendation the right of the Jews to the land assigned to he Jewish state. They then later recognized Israel as a nation with the borders defined by the 1948 war. So while you are correct that the UN didn't "just give the Jews the land" as I asserted, the Jews didn't "take it by force" either. And nobody agrees to an international Jerusalem so that point is essentially irrelevant.

Understand why they are pissed now Roman ?

On January 12 2009 20:03 VanDerMeyde wrote: Understand why they are pissed now Roman ?

Except there was no "palestine" before 1948, and the land they lost in 1967 was because of a war they started themselves

Zorglub!:
So what are UN saying about this 1967 land ?
And the apartheid wall, what is said about that ? (Hint: Haag)

Baal any actual message contained in your posts in lost among the incessant personal attacks. And the website where you found that picture says the 9/11 attacks were a joint operation of the US government and Israel, and cites Bible passages to contest the Jews' right to territory in the Middle East.

When civilised people have a conflict about land, they do like Denmark did in 1933 when Norway wanted to claim part of Greenland, we went to the court in Haag and we respected their judgement and won the case, we did not go to war with the norwegians. But of course no religions were involved there.