nl50 FR JJ ip - Page 2

On January 09 2009 09:19 Fox wrote: Show nested quote + On January 09 2009 08:03 nouck wrote:   On January 09 2009 08:00 Fox wrote: Call flop and go from there, but without history you need to give up on a lot of turns if he fires again. thats exactly what i mean. if he is more then competent any he would fire on any facecard again... and if you had a set you could play it the same way. lots of people will check turns. you cannot fold this now.

thats the trick and thats also what i want to verify with regulars playing at higher stakes then nl50. I follow the same line when i have a set (unless i have some sort of read he has air). However at nl50 they not generally go over the top with this kind of board with only tp or even worse then that. They always have at least QQ+

However i could take this line with overpair (to test the waters); set; draw or totally bs. I can imagine that if i would play at nl200 and then take this line with overpair i would be misunderstood (they will then put me on draw or air). Am I right in this one?

I don't 3bet pf there with JJ not in FR. I would have maybe called the flop cbet to see what happens IP on the turn and decide from there. No need to inflate the pot big with OP unless you are prepared to call a shove. These spots are tough against unknowns because it's harder to range them.

what do you imagine will call you there that youll beat when you repop the flop?, and if youre not willing to stick it in there why would you raise flop? you want to turn hand into bluff?

Standard is to call flop and fold to continued aggression.

Vs a big nit who doesn't cbet AK and such, you can just fold to flop cbet.

On January 09 2009 09:41 nouck wrote: Show nested quote + On January 09 2009 09:19 Fox wrote:   On January 09 2009 08:03 nouck wrote:   On January 09 2009 08:00 Fox wrote: Call flop and go from there, but without history you need to give up on a lot of turns if he fires again. thats exactly what i mean. if he is more then competent any he would fire on any facecard again... and if you had a set you could play it the same way. lots of people will check turns. you cannot fold this now. thats the trick and thats also what i want to verify with regulars playing at higher stakes then nl50. I follow the same line when i have a set (unless i have some sort of read he has air). However at nl50 they not generally go over the top with this kind of board with only tp or even worse then that. They always have at least QQ+ However i could take this line with overpair (to test the waters); set; draw or totally bs. I can imagine that if i would play at nl200 and then take this line with overpair i would be misunderstood (they will then put me on draw or air). Am I right in this one?

Yeah for your flop calling range that includes things like A10s, JJ, QQ, 89s, 64s, set for sure since i doubt he's raising that early with anything that's drawing that board.

At higher stakes players are more willing to fire on turns and rivers so it's difficult to call three streets with marginal hands while at lower limits players shut down on turns SO OFTEN.

--- Nuked ---

what's this i hear about folding this flop in a raised pot? and folding to a turn bet?

FR = heads asplodingg!

btw, raise/folding is the worst possible play. in all likelihood, you could have gotten the same info + a turn card just by calling the flop.

On January 09 2009 14:30 Fox wrote: Show nested quote + On January 09 2009 09:41 nouck wrote:   On January 09 2009 09:19 Fox wrote:   On January 09 2009 08:03 nouck wrote:   On January 09 2009 08:00 Fox wrote: Call flop and go from there, but without history you need to give up on a lot of turns if he fires again. thats exactly what i mean. if he is more then competent any he would fire on any facecard again... and if you had a set you could play it the same way. lots of people will check turns. you cannot fold this now. thats the trick and thats also what i want to verify with regulars playing at higher stakes then nl50. I follow the same line when i have a set (unless i have some sort of read he has air). However at nl50 they not generally go over the top with this kind of board with only tp or even worse then that. They always have at least QQ+ However i could take this line with overpair (to test the waters); set; draw or totally bs. I can imagine that if i would play at nl200 and then take this line with overpair i would be misunderstood (they will then put me on draw or air). Am I right in this one? Yeah for your flop calling range that includes things like A10s, JJ, QQ, 89s, 64s, set for sure since i doubt he's raising that early with anything that's drawing that board. At higher stakes players are more willing to fire on turns and rivers so it's difficult to call three streets with marginal hands while at lower limits players shut down on turns SO OFTEN.

well that is the reason why i started this question. I know i was wrong raising JJ here and kinda blew away the value of my hand. However i think this is only cos we are playing nl50 now. Problem is what you say Fox that at higher limits people are way more aggressive on turn and river streets. I dont want to be calling down all the way with JJ only not knowing how good my hand really is. On nl50 they could c-bet i call and then when they have missed flop and turn they shut down... I think on higher limits this kind of situations could be much harder to play cos of the fact they could fire on turn and river as well. Especially this kind of flop is perfect for second barreling on if the turn is a face card.

Dont understand me wrong here having overpair is always nice :D

your play makes zero sense whatsoever preflop then on flop.