[nl10] QQ against nit

villain is 15/11 over 27 hands..

Submitted by : sammejao

** Hand # 2299636676 starting - 2008-12-05 18:31:00
** Bubblegum Daze [Hold 'em] (0.05|0.10 NL - Cash Game) Real Money
kitupiikki sitting in seat 1 with $9.81
Hero sitting in seat 2 with $13.48
blackpoint sitting in seat 3 with $10.35
jankejonsson sitting in seat 4 with $3.96[Dealer]
naniokeliz sitting in seat 5 with $5.36
ukjimmy31 sitting in seat 6 with $2.43
naniokeliz posted the small blind - $0.05
ukjimmy31 posted the big blind - $0.10

Holecards
   
kitupiikki folded
Hero raised to $0.40
blackpoint raised to $1.00
jankejonsson folded
naniokeliz folded
ukjimmy31 folded
Hero raised to $2.80
blackpoint raised to $6.40

Fold....you are absolutely crushed here 92 percent of the time. He's almost always got kk+, ak at worst

yea, but should i make 4bet och could I flatcall his 3bet and stack of if I got the overpair?

Don't reraise his 3bet. Either flat call it or fold.

If you flat call it, you should not lead out on the flop. Check it, and look at his moves and make a decision then. And yes, when they 3bet you, usually they would have an AA,KK or AK at the lower stakes.

I think shoving is dumb, normal 4bet is fine. His three betting range includes a lot of hands you can get value from. You're OOP so the more money that goes in pre the better. I fold to his 5bet (because AK usually 5bet shoves here). Folding QQ to a 3bet is lol.

On December 05 2008 12:34 Sicks Macks wrote: I think shoving is dumb, normal 4bet is fine. His three betting range includes a lot of hands you can get value from. You're OOP so the more money that goes in pre the better. I fold to his 5bet (because AK usually 5bet shoves here). Folding QQ to a 3bet is lol.

Yea I would feel stupid if I fold to his 3bet.. flatcall/4bet is the options imo.. but im OOP.. Hm..

If I flatcall, what to do and on what board?

This is a spot I get into fairly often and I'd like to see what others think, considering I play it different every time.

27 hands isn't quite enough to fold this. get it in if you 4bet or just call his 3bet and stack off on good flops. sick betsizing tells by the villain tho.

what, he has 64?

yeah 64o(0)

4bet here is retarded, if you are going to 4bet you have to get it in and if that happens you are almost def beat, call the 3bet and observe his flop play like hhse said, if he has something stupid like AJ or air you need to let him think he is in control as long as possible so he can throw money at you

Dude wtf you can't 4-bet and then fold qq, that's blasphemy! Also your sample size makes his stats rather meaningless.

pf R QQ, when RR only call with set mining odds (1/20th relative stack) and fold if you miss or don't have odds to call. Play like it's AA KK. I wouldn't even stack off with KK here.

If I 4bet here I am going to 4bet a lot bigger because I'm out of position and I don't want to be in any really tough spots. 4betting bigger also helps you avoid this situation because if you 4bet to like 4 or 4.5 then you have like half your stack in and it makes it a really easy call if he shoves over.

I don't like flatting the 3bet because you're out of position.

shove you are completely pot committed against his range anyone who says this is a fold is retarted

Don't 4bet/fold QQ, in other words if you can't 4bet/get it in u gotta flat & play poker postflop, even if you're oop it's not that a disaster he's a nit and he's not gonna put you in very tough spots

On December 08 2008 06:56 smargiassi wrote: If I 4bet here I am going to 4bet a lot bigger because I'm out of position and I don't want to be in any really tough spots. 4betting bigger also helps you avoid this situation because if you 4bet to like 4 or 4.5 then you have like half your stack in and it makes it a really easy call if he shoves over. I don't like flatting the 3bet because you're out of position.

don't post advice pls

i would flat call his 3bet and re-evaluate flop, if no A or K comes on the flop i would check/call, same on turn and river. Also depends on structure of the board.

Or you can 4bet him like you did to find out where you stand, may be cheaper in the end. But then you have to lay it down to a 5 bet like he did in this hand.

if you wanna 4bet/fold QQ just get a lighter and set your money on fire you'll get the job done quicker

check next post :D

Hm i think i understand what you mean. He will never fold to your 4 bet so you gain nothing? No more information whatsoever or equity.

You're not gettin it, a 4bet/fold turns QQ into a bluff which is obv retarded, and if you do 4bet you're committed to call cuz QQ has ~40% equity vs KK+,AK thats why 4bet/foldin is rly burnin money, and 4bettin "for info" is quite gross imo

it's a 27 hand sample of some random donkey you can't play this hand wrong if you want to get your stack in, not much to discuss here... lol @ 4bet/fold btw...

On December 08 2008 04:45 genjix wrote: pf R QQ, when RR only call with set mining odds (1/20th relative stack) and fold if you miss or don't have odds to call. Play like it's AA KK. I wouldn't even stack off with KK here.

sick level?

On December 08 2008 08:59 MiPwnYa wrote: You're not gettin it, a 4bet/fold turns QQ into a bluff which is obv retarded, and if you do 4bet you're committed to call cuz QQ has ~40% equity vs KK+,AK thats why 4bet/foldin is rly burnin money, and 4bettin "for info" is quite gross imo

I get it. I agree, it's not the way to play the hand. I did seem like something wise at the time i wrote it though whehe

But my point was, what if you could lose less money determining either if he has AA, KK instead of calling his 3 bet and pay him off on a low board. So losing a 4 bet instead of whole stack.

if he's that nitty (which we actually have no idea if it is the case in this particular hand cuz sample size is too small but let's assume we face a complete nit) you won't be losing a stack to him w QQ on a baby board. And assuming we flat his 3bet pf and call once postflop, when we do fold the turn we lose about the same amount of money as if we had 4bet but with calling pre we can still win the pot if we flop a Q/spike a Q on the turn or if he cbets flop w AK then gives up, whereas 4bet/folding is not really likely to make you win pots.

u gotta call coz u 4bet ... just flat call his 3bet next time but u cant rly 4bet fold this
i bet he showed u AA or KK fo sure here thats what his line represents pretty much 99% of the time on this stackes

On December 08 2008 12:13 EscapingR wrote: But my point was, what if you could lose less money determining either if he has AA, KK instead of calling his 3 bet and pay him off on a low board. So losing a 4 bet instead of whole stack.

but you are never going to win anything because if he was getting aggro with a big ace or JJ or something he instafolds, you are killing all your value by making a play that ensures you are up against AA/KK and will lose... also at this stake you should be fine seeing flops because hypothetically your postflop should dominate everyone elses, dont play scared of losing play in the way that makes you most likely to win

Even though these stats don't tell u a lot theyre not worthless, ur opponent is far more likely to be Tag/ nit than he is to be an aggressive donk. Just call 3bet and his actions postflop should help u narrow down his range.

if ur gonna 4-bet then call,

but this is an easy fold