Poker Noob: NL5 Dynamics

I'm pretty much a poker noob in terms of experience, although I've started to learn about things like pot odds, implied odds, etc. Most of my experience has been playing play-money sit-and-gos and I've actually had a lot of success, winning a good amount of them, and also playing my poker friend noobs whose knowledge of poker is limited to AK, pocket pair good, 2-7 bad. Too bad this means nothing, and I know that. I also watch a lot of poker shows.
So, yesterday I find that my pokerstars account was given $5 of real money through "admin credit", not sure how that works. So I try the penny tables .02-.05 NL.
I went through a lot of ups and downs but by the end of the night I busted out because I got so frustrated.
My question is:
Is it simply the nature of people who play .02-.05 NL that it seems like every hand the only people in the hand are the small and big blind and they limp/check into the pot. The pots were so small in the tables, it was averaging like 40 cents but almost all of them were 14 cents or under, with one huge pot skewing the mean. Everytime I had even a decent hand, either everyone folded and I made an amazing .07 or the opponent had AA or KK or some super hand that they straight called my raise on. It seems impossible to make a profit at these tables. I noticed that people's stack rarely changed by more than 50 cents in an hour. Is the only feasible way to play these tables is to just wait for a huge hand, and either collect the blinds or rarely get lucky and beat someone with a lower kicker? I tried playing loose but the only people who called my bets had the best hand, so those few times I won the blinds were negated by a caller with the nuts.

I don't know. I've never played NL5, but if everyone is as weaktight preflop as you suggest, I would raise a wide range of hands from late position and just pick up the blinds frequently and otherwise play pots in position against passive players if I get calls from the blinds. Short of having a maniac shoving every hand for 100bbs and rebuying, this is kind of a dream scenario, you just have to adjust.

You might also be playing full ring, try 6-max tables if you want more action.

Also, not to be rude, but you probably know someone who can spot you $40. Play money is a waste of time, and doesn't really teach you anything about poker. Take $40 and try out 1c-2c no limit with some of the strategies you see on this site. Remember to adapt to your table though, there is no profit in playing extra tight at an extra tight table.

Why have someone spot you 40 when you can take advantage of LP's promos?
Search up Jelle's guide for players starting out- it teaches some basic skills and is a winning style of play at penny tables.

First you should read up on bankroll management. Five dollars isn't even enough to prevent yourself from going broke at NL2.

Second, it is possible. Since you only had 5 dollars, my guess is you were only playing one table with all your money. When you get good hands, you will not get paid off with them very often. Getting dealt AA is only half the puzzle; the other part is your opponent has to have something they like enough to be willing to go all in with you.

Making a good amount of money at NL5 is a pretty distant thought. If you played 24 tables of NL5 at once and were very good at it, you would probably only make as much as a part time job.

@sickmacks: yes it was full ring, I tried to find a smaller table but at those limits, the tables are always full. I actually really hate full ring, I have a hard time with it in general. I'll go search to see if there are any articles/posts about fullring vs smaller tables.

@mikeymoo: I intend to take advantage of the LP promos. I just registered so I haven't got around to it. I actually read Jelle's guide, it was very informative.

@edzwoo: sounds like NL5 is just a waste of time, I'll play some real tables once I get some money into my accounts. And yes, I was playing with my entire bankroll since I only had 5, seemed like a bad idea but there weren't any smaller tables besides .01-.02.

On December 04 2008 13:29 ahole-surprise wrote: @sickmacks: yes it was full ring, I tried to find a smaller table but at those limits, the tables are always full. I actually really hate full ring, I have a hard time with it in general. I'll go search to see if there are any articles/posts about fullring vs smaller tables. @mikeymoo: I intend to take advantage of the LP promos. I just registered so I haven't got around to it. I actually read Jelle's guide, it was very informative. @edzwoo: sounds like NL5 is just a waste of time, I'll play some real tables once I get some money into my accounts

NL5 isn't a waste of time to build up your game. I think there's a lot of value to moving up the limits naturally even if you have money outside of poker. And Ed's point about bankroll management is true. You want to be properly rolled for any game you play, so you need a minimum of $40 for NL2, $100 for NL5, and $200 for NL10.

there is no way ALL the tables were full at nl2

On December 04 2008 13:29 ahole-surprise wrote: @sickmacks: yes it was full ring, I tried to find a smaller table but at those limits, the tables are always full. I actually really hate full ring, I have a hard time with it in general. I'll go search to see if there are any articles/posts about fullring vs smaller tables. @mikeymoo: I intend to take advantage of the LP promos. I just registered so I haven't got around to it. I actually read Jelle's guide, it was very informative. @edzwoo: sounds like NL5 is just a waste of time, I'll play some real tables once I get some money into my accounts. And yes, I was playing with my entire bankroll since I only had 5, seemed like a bad idea but there weren't any smaller tables besides .01-.02.

Just to let you know I started from the exact same $5 you got from Stars. They gave me $5 and I never looked back. Never used my own money once.

What you learn from NL2 and NL5 is INVALUABLE. If you don't have the discipline to grind up a roll from these stakes, you won't be able to succeed further down. It will teach you tilt control, bankroll management, and patience for waiting in the right spots. And when you do screw up, you'll just be losing a few bucks.

If you try to learn that by playing higher stakes... well I don't know what that's like because I started from the pennies. I'm going to assume it would really suck though.

never bluff
bet when you have a really strong preflop hand
bet harder when you flop something
if you saw them fold a lot cbet
if not fold when you miss

profit

i have no idea what games you are playing but i get paid off almost every time even playing like a total nit at nl2-nl5

Have you read the poker articles on this site for beginners yet? It's very solid.

From my experience no one plays anything fullring unless it's really big. I lost more money with trips than I made any because the only people playing on a paired board are the ones who get the fullhouse. To me it seems the skill in this gametype is spotting if someone has aces when you have kings or if someone has an overset when you have a set.

I just passed NL5, i was probably on a heater since i made like 20BI in 1 week but my advice should help you out.

Don't ever consider playing loose in this stakes, in case your lost trying to find out wich hands you should be playing you need to read the beginners guide in this very site, also you need to understand pot odds and position at least in a basic level, i say that if you learn some preflop play and the basic of position and odds you are already a winner at micro.

If you get bored waiting for good hands try multitabling, at these stakes you don't need info on other players, 97 out of 100 will be donks trust me on this one.

Don't get to fancy, representing hands in 0.02 is idiotic, people don't pay attention to the board, be aggressive in the few pots you play, but choose your spots very carefully because they will have all sort of stupid hands no matter if you raise 0.2 preflop they will show up with very marginal hands such as K10, A8s and shit like that.

Well putting it in a very simple manner, wait for a good hand raise the correct amount (you can also find this in the begginers guide), raise if you hit and raise if you don't hit in the correct kind of board, people will pay you off eventually.

...so you took a 1bi shot at 5nl and got busted? Imo you need to get rolled, grind, don't play lose.

I'm not sure where the question is. I saw one sentence with a questionmark there. And the answer to that question would be "no". =s

On December 06 2008 02:31 dejokah wrote: I just passed NL5, i was probably on a heater since i made like 20BI in 1 week but my advice should help you out. Don't ever consider playing loose in this stakes,

I completely disagree. I tried many styles and the only one that seems to work is to bet every single flop and take down multiple small pots because people never ever play without a set or aces/kings/queens, they check it to you and fold. The problem is that people catch on if you win 5000 pots in a row.

On December 06 2008 02:31 dejokah wrote: Don't ever consider playing loose in this stakes,

Just play super tight, read Jelle's article, start from NL5 at the highest IMO. If you do start from nl5 deposit $200 IMO because if you don't know much about poker you very well might lose for a while before you turn it around.

i grinded play money tables before i made 2.5 million and sold it for $25
then i played $1.20 sit-n-gos before i had $150
then i started on nl2... only playing PP's and waiting for sets/overpairs. started adding more hands like Ax and SC's/gappers. got to $200 and started nl5
went down a bit, then became broke even, then slowly started going up then was going up fast and hit $250 (after having gone down to 150) so went onto nl10...

i don't think you need ever deposit real money. and FR is just dandy. those people who say its impossible to win just can't play poker- Zuries has good advice:

never bluff bet when you have a really strong preflop hand bet harder when you flop something if you saw them fold a lot cbet if not fold when you miss profit

If you never bluff how can you make money on fullring? You have 9 players sitting waiting for good cards and then you raise, one of the 8 will sometimes choose to play headsup with you and you have to guess if your nut is bigger than his nut. PLaying like that just means whoever gets the better run of cards wins. I see no possible way to do anything unless you bluff flops with an ace and steal massive blinds.6max seems like a gametype where skill actually matters unlike FR where nothing seems to matter besides hitting goodcards+flops.But what do I knoW? just my opinion anyway

you can't bluff a bluffer.

Your looking for skill in the wrong place, NL2, NL5 and NL10 are not about skill, they are about patience.

Believe me there is no point in analyzing this players, they have no real range of hands that you can place them, they play random hands from random positions and bet random values, you really need to be a nit.

Seriously, poker is much more than that but not on this levels.

Imo, just learn the basics after that you can start worrying about more advanced stuff you won't need info on the other players until NL25 or so, making "plays" without understanding what you are doing is just trying to get lucky.

Position, Starting Hands, Pot Odds, Implied Odds & FE

Learn this first then try to analyze other people.

On December 06 2008 11:31 dejokah wrote: Your looking for skill in the wrong place, NL2, NL5 and NL10 are not about skill, they are about patience. Believe me there is no point in analyzing this players, they have no real range of hands that you can place them, they play random hands from random positions and bet random values, you really need to be a nit. Seriously, poker is much more than that but not on this levels. Imo, just learn the basics after that you can start worrying about more advanced stuff you won't need info on the other players until NL25 or so, making "plays" without understanding what you are doing is just trying to get lucky. Position, Starting Hands, Pot Odds, Implied Odds & FE Learn this first then try to analyze other people.

SPOT ON

On average I only see 1 of those kinds of players per table, everyone else is doing the whole nit it up thing. They do however adjust every single hand and don't have a strict plan on how to play hands, that is the only thing they do randomly imo but that just makes reads somewhat useless. I know a regular who limp raised aa utg and sometimes he bets it, just real hard to know what ppl have but it's always something good

isnt FR supposed to have less variance than 6 MAX?

I don't know, you can take what I say as you like it's just my opinion on the matter. FR to me seems like nutcard variance. You can play less hands because you get more cards to choose from each orbit so what people play is going to be very big compared to 6max where you need to steal more blinds.

sh what site you playing on ?

If you say stars then you have really no idea or even a grasp on what the concept nit means.

I'm assuming it's all pps + AJ and up maybe some suited connectors from button and QK suited.

It's not only about starting hands but this range you describe is tight enough, and i can tell you from experience, 1 out of 30 people in NL2 will play that way, so unless you are playing on a totally different site (not stars/not party) you must be lying (sorry).

I would've assumed stars would be even worse because the skill level there is higher o_O

street_hooker , try table selecting more, even at nl100 (Pokerstars) when i properly table select i am at better tables than you describe and i've been through the lower limits as well.. if at nl100 i can find tables with MINIMUM one player if not 2-3 who is playing quite loose and frankly is somewhat of a calling station, you most certainly can find them at lower limits, unless you are purposely queuing to join all the 8vpip tables. that said, i pretty much give due respect to the good players and i have a small edge by bluffing them but they're not really what i'm interested in.

you play to get into situations with bad players where your edge is the largest; yes there are players who you have a much smaller edge against because they are nut peddlers but you are really over exaggerating or looking in the wrong places if you really feel all of your tables are full of these sorts of players.

and yes i play full ring 9 max.

genjix u won something at nl5? ure minus huge amount on my stats. noted as a nit too lol.

On December 07 2008 00:38 andrewsidekick wrote: genjix u won something at nl5? ure minus huge amount on my stats. noted as a nit too lol.

yeah $80 and I moved to nl10. I am a bit of a nit

On December 07 2008 07:47 genjix wrote: Show nested quote + On December 07 2008 00:38 andrewsidekick wrote: genjix u won something at nl5? ure minus huge amount on my stats. noted as a nit too lol. yeah $80 and I moved to nl10. I am a bit of a nit

wat