GM is cheaper than gas

So a friend of mine is interested in buying GM stock right now because it’s selling so low and he thinks that the government will eventually juice it up with the $25 billion bailout, which ‘should’ subsequently the prices of the company’s stock. But bailout or not, I insisted that he find better stocks to invest in, because afaik GM is tanking after years of a bloated and inefficient management structure and an inability to fulfill its fundamental objective, which is to make and sell cars that people want to buy. So I thought that even if the bailout came through and the stock ticker didn’t flatline, it still would take a long while for the company’s share prices to rise significantly, since there’s no way that GM is going to be able to sustain any kind of profitability anytime soon. Even before the crisis, this company was a pretty shitty company to invest in, mounting net losses and losing market share every year. So I figured that if he actually buys this stock, then he’s really no different from the huge fish who look for nothing more than a huge suck-out, and I’d prefer that he doesn’t gamble on a losing bet.

What do you think? How should I break this to him?

ROFL huge fish, why would he invest in an automobile stock in a recession???

Also, GM and Daimler Chrysler had been on a slump since the japanese manufacturers started raping the market.

DC did so so poorly that it went broke and it was bought by Cerberus and GM wont do any better, American cars are just shitty compared to Asian cars who are entering the american market stronger and the European market is only beggining to introduce their cars in USA.

investing in GM is worse than burning money

I don't approve of this unpatriotic thread.

On November 20 2008 11:15 Tien wrote: I don't approve of this unpatriotic thread.

aren't you canadian? lol..

if he bought gm this morning and maxed out on margin he coulda pulled a jyang and almost doubled his bankroll in 3 hours!

he coulda also just bet his entire bankroll on black and doubled it in 1 minute too.

i think his investment is a flip

On November 20 2008 11:23 TenBagger wrote: if he bought gm this morning and maxed out on margin he coulda pulled a jyang and almost doubled his bankroll in 3 hours!

jyang 1,000 x his bankroll

the bailout will not overcome the structural problems with the company. the labor structure is the most problematic and it would require ch 11 to remediate to any extent. a bailout would preclude ch 11. bail it out and it still sells shit that nobody wants and bleeds money. that's why it's selling at buck fiddy.

On November 20 2008 12:08 sawseech wrote: the bailout will not overcome the structural problems with the company. the labor structure is the most problematic and it would require ch 11 to remediate to any extent. a bailout would preclude ch 11. bail it out and it still sells shit that nobody wants and bleeds money. that's why it's selling at three fiddy

Id never invest a cent in GM, its money you throw out the window. This company is a pile of shit.

GM is 60 billion in the hole, they are going to go BYEBYE.

If one is going to invest in an automaker (big three anyway because price is so cheap) they should invest in some Ford. They are the only ones who have the slimmest of all slim chances of making it. They most likely wont, 99% sure they wont, but the price is so cheap that if and when GM and Chrysler go under, they WILL have the marketshare.

I'm actually going to buy the paper stock, just 1 share because the paper is very beautifully designed and it's nice to have something that proves they were once a company.

fact remains that if one bought earlier this morning and sold it a few hours later and levered x2 they woulda had a return of 470% in a couple hours

above posters are right a government bailout aren't gonna magically generate more sales because they can't keep up with japanese innovation. If you had to buy why not just go TYO?

Personally Intel is looking mighty juicy right now...can't go wrong with a blue chip woodchucker

lol

i have very good stoploss exits thats why i betted my entire br a lot + margin

and dont go GM its goin to busto

when u buy a stock u dont risk like ur entire $ spent, u have stoplosses and profit taking objectives which means not all my profolio is at risk.

everyone is in a recession...invest in schwinn or huffy.

jyang you are sick at investing, you gotta be my financial adviser when i have money to invesnt

so whatss the countdown to busto with my investing style?

On November 20 2008 12:37 TenBagger wrote: fact remains that if one bought earlier this morning and sold it a few hours later and levered x2 they woulda had a return of 470% in a couple hours

lol day trading... woulda coulda shoulda. soooo frustrating to consider what could have been

is it really humanly possible to play it profitably?

if the bailout occurs, the stock will definitely rebound big temporarily since so much of the movement these days is based on sentiment. banking on timing that right is a big gamble. in the end though, it should still tank and will most likely be a shitty investment because of the above facts. the general catalogue of american made cars simply sucks too much ass and even the stupid people in middle america are startiing to catch on to that.

Personally I think the bailout will happen but it really shouldn't. Why is the government saving a private company that isn't able to compete? It's like the article in this weeks "The Economist" said, why back a losing horse in a race? I get that it will appear to be saving jobs in the short-term but what should actually happen is the uncompetitive company should be forced to make cut-backs and fix themselves until they are actually able to compete with the other companies in the automobile industry. Saving the banks was important because in society we all depend on them but saving private companies isn't a road we should be going down.

ya i dont agree with the bailout either

if they go bankrupt they can just rebuild, or we can all just drive german or japanese cars

going bankrupt doesn't mean it's not goin to exist anymore. circuit city filed for chapter 11 and they still operating.

they prolly need to busto so we can finally have a shot at a decent bottom where even traders would wanna do buy and hold investing style

american auto industry was fucked 10 years ago when the japanese started making fuel efficient cars and the americans laughed and said that americans want their trucks. As Agent Smith would say "It is inevitable".

and you know the Big 3 are fucked when the republicans, who are all about giving money to corporate america, say that they think even with bailout money the companies won't do well in the future. It's the Democrats who are pushing this bill in congress, but honestly I think American Capitalism should run its course and let Japanese and European car companies rule the world.

On November 20 2008 15:30 royalsu wrote: american auto industry was fucked 10 years ago when the japanese started making fuel efficient cars and the americans laughed and said that americans want their trucks. As Agent Smith would say "It is inevitable". and you know the Big 3 are fucked when the republicans, who are all about giving money to corporate america, say that they think even with bailout money the companies won't do well in the future. It's the Democrats who are pushing this bill in congress, but honestly I think American Capitalism should run its course and let Japanese and European car companies rule the world.

That is what happens when idiots fail to see that every time anyone spends an American dollar, the energy equivalent of half a liter of oil is burned to produce what that dollar buys!
When just five percent of the world's population consumes 23% of its energy!

And the morons thinks this can go on for ever....

On November 20 2008 15:30 royalsu wrote: american auto industry was fucked 10 years ago when the japanese started making fuel efficient cars and the americans laughed and said that americans want their trucks. As Agent Smith would say "It is inevitable". and you know the Big 3 are fucked when the republicans, who are all about giving money to corporate america, say that they think even with bailout money the companies won't do well in the future. It's the Democrats who are pushing this bill in congress, but honestly I think American Capitalism should run its course and let Japanese and European car companies rule the world.

its not only fuel efficiency a japanese or european car is superior in almost any possible way than american cars, the assembly quality, luxury and sportiveness is simply far superior.

GM is very likely to lose their liquidity by june next year. government bailout is likely to just delay it. and u never know how bailouts will affect shares etc. i'm not sure but i think RBS shares actually started dropping after the bailout was announced and confirmed and now the UK govt will have to buy them for the price higher than the current trading price. so ya investing any monies in GM is definitely not the best idea imo

LMAO even the government refused to invest BAILOUT money in GM! Saying that the company sucks so bad that the "best solution to GM problems is banckrupcy." Now why anyone EVER want to invest in such a huge pile of shit company named GM?

On November 20 2008 15:30 royalsu wrote: and you know the Big 3 are fucked when the republicans, who are all about giving money to corporate america, say that they think even with bailout money the companies won't do well in the future. It's the Democrats who are pushing this bill in congress, but honestly I think American Capitalism should run its course and let Japanese and European car companies rule the world.

This isn't about "corporate America" it's about the unions which have had the Dems in their pocket for decades. Republicans should hypothetically not be giving money to anyone, in fact they are the only hope for the future if they can pull their heads out since the Democratic leadership wants to use this crisis to turn the country into USSR2 with the first step being the nationalization these of non-competitive shit companies. Pelosi/Obama 5 year plan: a Chevy Malibu for every American! Populism ftl.

PS: tell your friend AIG might be getting another bailout soon and he should invest there, also Countrywide is a steal!

On November 20 2008 17:01 capaneo wrote: LMAO even the government refused to invest BAILOUT money in GM! Saying that the company sucks so bad that the "best solution to GM problems is banckrupcy." Now why anyone EVER want to invest in such a huge pile of shit company named GM?

random stock tipz lolz

On November 20 2008 17:12 collegesucks wrote: Show nested quote + On November 20 2008 17:01 capaneo wrote: LMAO even the government refused to invest BAILOUT money in GM! Saying that the company sucks so bad that the "best solution to GM problems is banckrupcy." Now why anyone EVER want to invest in such a huge pile of shit company named GM? random stock tipz lolz

lol

despite that dis iz a poker forum

a lot of the stuff said here are 100000x truer than shits u hear on cnbc

the fact that GM already trades so low means that the likelihood of it going bankrupt is already priced into the stock. In the remote chance that somehow, it survives this period with the help of the US gov't, then buying the stock at 2 bucks will prove to be a great investment.

I'm not saying that is likely for I personally think that the bailout will either not pass or even if it does, it will not save the company. However, if you take a look at the FUCKING HUGE trading range for GM during the day, it was reflective of market sentiment of the likelihood of a bailout. It starting this morning going straight down and was down like 40% or something by 10am. Then around noon, there was word of a bailout from the senate and the stock shot up to 4 bucks. Then, people started to realize that it was only the opinion of a senator from michigan and missouri, and reid and pelosi start bashing the auto CEOs again and they say that it will not pass unless they come up with a plan. Then the stock loses 33% in an hour.

Is GM likely to go bankrupt? Is GM a shitty company? YES and YES. Would I ever advocate an amateur trader to attempt to profit in short term trading of GM? NO. Is there tons of money to be made by savvy traders? Absolutely. The swings that GM went through today and the volatility of the overall market in general is truly phenomenal and is a once in a lifetime occurence.

its also possible that existing shareholders get wiped out in a bailout.

i didn't realize it was union pressure behind the Dems push for this bailout. Very interesting.

this situation sort of reminds me of the litigation against big tobacco. One argument against shutting them down was that even though cigarettes kill people, the economy depended on that industry so much that closing them down would send the economy into recession.

I don't mind government bailout for the auto industry, as long as it's a temporary measure to help out employees while the company drastically changes direction and allows employees to change jobs/industries.

On November 20 2008 17:12 collegesucks wrote: Show nested quote + On November 20 2008 17:01 capaneo wrote: LMAO even the government refused to invest BAILOUT money in GM! Saying that the company sucks so bad that the "best solution to GM problems is banckrupcy." Now why anyone EVER want to invest in such a huge pile of shit company named GM? random stock tipz lolz

LMAO. I know better about auto industry than the best bankers out there(on the poker forum). Since I know around 487530457435 first hand people who work there. Since Im doing projects with GM at shcool. Since almost %80 of people who graduate in my field would want to work in auto industry.

I could tell you that GM needs to change his plans or he is gonna go bankrupt at around 2004 and the buzz about the hybirds. GM needed to do HUGE changes in every aspect of their bussiness. From the designs/engineerings/software contracts/........ to the way the handeled salaries.
Any engineer in the field with a little sense of common sense and open mind could tell you that in 2004. And thats exactly the reason that Ford changed thier CEO when they realized. And thats what gave them the chance to maybe make it out of this.
And this is why exactly GM is gonna go down unless get help from the congress and this is also what congress is asking for in place of the bailout money. A FUCKING SOLID PLAN.



Edit:Never mind. I didnt realized you actually started this thread.

What am I doing wasting my time arguing with someone whose logic in finance is: Its cheap ----> Lets buy.
Im afraid you do not really posses the minimum requirements to engage in an intellectual conversation on this subject.

sparknotes on capaneo: GM is cheap but NOT undervalued. So your investment still sucks.

someone stake me so i can invest in drug companies and get rich

On November 20 2008 20:55 capaneo wrote: Edit:Never mind. I didnt realized you actually started this thread. What am I doing wasting my time arguing with someone whose logic in finance is: Its cheap ----> Lets buy. Im afraid you do not really posses the minimum requirements to engage in an intellectual conversation on this subject.

ha.

kinda hard to engage in an intellectual conversation if you don't read posts correctly before proceeding to bash people.

is there a phenomenon of losing gambler's tilt in the stock market just like in poker?

On November 21 2008 09:04 Jelle wrote: is there a phenomenon of losing gambler's tilt in the stock market just like in poker?

ya

many people won't even look into their account to see how much they are down

hoping that stocks will rebound in the long run

didn't the government already "sneak by" a 25 billion loan when most people were distracted by the 800 billion dollar bail out? this is more? these fuckers just need to go out quietly, even if they get their loans/bailout/rescue(lol) they're going to lose autonomy in how they run their business

On November 21 2008 08:53 collegesucks wrote: Show nested quote + On November 20 2008 20:55 capaneo wrote: Edit:Never mind. I didnt realized you actually started this thread. What am I doing wasting my time arguing with someone whose logic in finance is: Its cheap ----> Lets buy. Im afraid you do not really posses the minimum requirements to engage in an intellectual conversation on this subject. ha. kinda hard to engage in an intellectual conversation if you don't read posts correctly before proceeding to bash people.

Its always feels better to bash instead of listening to others!
But on a serious side note I was talking today about American auto industry today and this is why they are all going bankrupt:

1)You want to buy a new car
2)You are rich ----> You buy german
3)You are not rich ---->You buy japanese
4)You are a redneck who wants a truck ---> You buy american and spend 4724732 on Gas.

This is obv exaggerated but it really sums up the reason they are posting losses. They simply suck.

well said cap. If I had 50-80k to spend on a balla car i'd prolly get something like a BMW M3 or something along that line.

and if i was going nit style under 20k i'd prolly go with some japanese eco box that'll never break down and gets 10,000 miles a tank.

ah... looks like the friend was right and the forum was wrong. He coulda tripled his roll.