boat against nanonookkok

shove or call river
Submitted by : lostaccount

POKERSTARS GAME #22199064138: HOLD'EM NO LIMIT ($2/$4) - 2008/11/20 4:00:12 ET
Table 'Bellona' 6-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: Dustangel ($400 in chips)
Seat 2: nanonoko ($685.30 in chips)
Seat 3: kalamitsis ($396 in chips)
Seat 4: jj_raise ($400 in chips)
Seat 5: GirlsHolic ($462.60 in chips)
Seat 6: Hero ($993.10 in chips)
Hero : posts small blind $2
Dustangel: posts big blind $4

Holecards
Dealt to Hero
nanonoko: raises $4 to $8
kalamitsis: folds
jj_raise: folds
GirlsHolic: folds
Hero : calls $6
Dustangel: folds

Flop (Pot : $20.00)

   
Hero : checks
nanonoko: bets $16
Hero : calls $16

Turn (Pot : $52.00)

   
Hero : bets $22
nanonoko: calls $22

River (Pot : $96.00)

   
Hero : bets $72
nanonoko: raises $108 to $180

You lose to JJ, JTs and TT, a total of 6 combinations(correct me if I'm wrong). I think he is rarely calling these on the turn as he is pretty straight forward and would want to build a pot as you are repping draw/Tx.

Shove.

And raise flop.

I think it's a shove since it's extremely unlikely he's going to flat such a small bet on the turn with a boat or quads, so he can't have you beat. That said, he's probably almost never calling the river shove with AT or a flush but you don't give up anything by trying.

I think it's a shove since his hand is such obvious FD that just came in. I really think strong hands raise your turn bet. I don't really see him getting really tricky here, thinking you have FD, and flatting his lock hand to give you a chance to fill it.

Id say call, I mean isnt his range supposed to be nuts or air there? He rarely has the nuts but can he really raise a flush for value on that board ??
And pump the flop somehow.

Depends if he is capable to fold (A hi) flush to your push. Then, it would be better to just call.

His small raise definitelly looks like a flush or maybe Tx going for max value however he is raising so small to have room to fold, i think this guy is folding to a shove, he MAY call with the nut flush however you will run into JT/JJ/TT more often than the times he calls with the nut flush draw, flat call cuz there is no much value in shoving plus u get to see his hand.

I'm with Freak here. I don't think he has anything else other than a flush.

On November 20 2008 09:12 Loco wrote: I'm with Freak here. I don't think he has anything else other than a flush.

how does he view you? there's just no value in shoving against this player if he doesn't think you're capable of bluffing here. maybe min raise?

im with everyone , PLUS I think he has Q9dd , just flat cuz hes folding to a shove

btw could u do me a favor and dont post spoilers at the end? i can't do anything but look at it before I even think of the hand

Weird, but I think flat here vs nanonoko. He's smart enough not giving you a penny more with anything you still have beat.

On November 20 2008 03:25 FrEaK[S.sIR] wrote: You lose to JJ, JTs and TT, a total of 6 combinations(correct me if I'm wrong). I think he is rarely calling these on the turn as he is pretty straight forward and would want to build a pot as you are repping draw/Tx. Shove. And raise flop.

For a nit, you seem to say raise / shove in some really weird / bad spots imo

He's also capable of bluffing river here thinking you might toss just a ten, so it's always interesting to see his hand in spots like this anyways

god you played this hand really bad

On November 20 2008 03:25 FrEaK[S.sIR] wrote: You lose to JJ, JTs and TT, a total of 6 combinations(correct me if I'm wrong). I think he is rarely calling these on the turn as he is pretty straight forward and would want to build a pot as you are repping draw/Tx. Shove. And raise flop.

you're missing T7 as another hand that beats you

anyways your logic makes no sense to me. if he has you on a draw then why in god's name would he want to raise the turn, especially from in position?

i easily flat call this, and I think he frequently has u beat. more often than he calls a shove for sure.

On November 20 2008 19:46 TimDawg wrote: god you played this hand really bad

This is the more important discussion in the thread. This hand is butchered from the flop... how in the world do you flop a set and leave him room to get away from made flushes?

what is wrong with the way i played this hand? he is probably cont betting almost all of his range here. i bet small on turn to make him rr bluff turn.

He's firing all of his value range plus bluffs on the turn when you check to him, your "plan" isn't so hot especially on this flop with these stack sizes. Just c/r flop and go from there. As played, he's NEVER flatting turn with a FH but might fold to a shove, so I'd probably make it 310 or so. But seriously, think about how to get stacks in, putting $46 after the turn of $685 effective is horrible planning.

On November 20 2008 19:49 asdf2000 wrote: Show nested quote + On November 20 2008 03:25 FrEaK[S.sIR] wrote: You lose to JJ, JTs and TT, a total of 6 combinations(correct me if I'm wrong). I think he is rarely calling these on the turn as he is pretty straight forward and would want to build a pot as you are repping draw/Tx. Shove. And raise flop. you're missing T7 as another hand that beats you anyways your logic makes no sense to me. if he has you on a draw then why in god's name would he want to raise the turn, especially from in position? i easily flat call this, and I think he frequently has u beat. more often than he calls a shove for sure.

Yes, nananoko raises T7 UTG. Obviously.

Because if you're on a draw, he's not getting any money out of you if you miss the river. His best line to optimize value with trips and better would have been to raise turn and then shove river. That way he gets more money when the draws miss, which is a much higher percentage of the time than when the draws hit.

On November 20 2008 14:58 JonnyCosMo wrote: Show nested quote + On November 20 2008 03:25 FrEaK[S.sIR] wrote: You lose to JJ, JTs and TT, a total of 6 combinations(correct me if I'm wrong). I think he is rarely calling these on the turn as he is pretty straight forward and would want to build a pot as you are repping draw/Tx. Shove. And raise flop. For a nit, you seem to say raise / shove in some really weird / bad spots imo

Yep, I'm a nit. That describes me perfectly. Last time you played with me I was 28/22/5. That's about as nitty as they come.

And Nanonoko simply isn't calling with all the hands that beat you on the turn. He certainly isn't doing it with them 100% of the time. I would imagine it brings it down to 1-2 combinations when you consider how often he MIGHT call the turn with his monsters. He plays really straight forward and will almost always raise the turn with his monsters, so I take them out of his range.

Forgive me for being so stupid.

On November 21 2008 02:08 lostaccount wrote: what is wrong with the way i played this hand? he is probably cont betting almost all of his range here. i bet small on turn to make him rr bluff turn.

Neither of those are reasons why this hand wasn't played good. Him c betting almost all of his range doesn't make c/c or c/r good or bad, it's the fact that you miss a ton of value vs a huge percentage of his range. Why would he ever raise your turn bet? You're trying to be way too tricky in this hand.

Yeah I think that was a bit fps play there, especially if this guy plays so many tables you cant expect him to rr bluff you there often, and how do you plan to balance that out anyway ? I agree that boats are very unlikely from vilian because he didnt raise turn but still possible, and to be honest the only reason I think he rr his Q hi flush there is because he was playing so many tables and maybe didnt notice the board paired, but I doubt you get called there like ever when you shove.

You played the hand so weird that it really does not look like you have a house if you shove river. He might fold anything worse than nut flush thou.